{"podcast":{"title":"This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler","slug":"this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337","podcast_index_feed_id":4458337,"rss_url":"https://feeds.megaphone.fm/doomsdaywatch","website_url":"https://www.patreon.com/thisisnotadrill","image_url":"https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/02401908-3ccc-11ec-bbb5-1772ce803003/image/3af8572d96101372a0602695e09e147d.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&max-w=3000&max-h=3000&fit=crop&auto=format,compress","author":"Podmasters","episode_count":237,"summary":"Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are making our world ever more dangerous. Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon from just £3 per month to get each episode early plus bonus material and exclusive merchandise. From Podmasters, the team behind Oh God, What Now?, Paper Cuts and The Bunker.","last_synced_at":"2026-07-30T14:22:10.545142+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337"},"episode":{"title":"Order vs. Chaos – Who is thriving in a world of crisis?","slug":"order-vs-chaos-who-is-thriving-in-a-world-of-crisis","published_at":"2026-05-28T03:00:00+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/order-vs-chaos-who-is-thriving-in-a-world-of-crisis","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337","url":"https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/NSR9497191231.mp3","audio_url":"https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/NSR9497191231.mp3","summary":"In a new book, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail, co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations Mark Leonard argues that we have entered an age of ‘un-order’ – when the rules and norms of the international order no longer hold sway. Can democratic leaders find a way to meet the challenges of an era of widening conflict, geopolitical competition and political division? In today’s episode, Mark joins Gavin Esler to discuss a new age of instability, and asks who is best prepared to survive chaos, and how? Buy Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund the podcast by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices","meta_description":"In a new book, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail, co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations Mark Leonard argues…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":2117,"processing_state":"not_requested","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/episodes/order-vs-chaos-who-is-thriving-in-a-world-of-crisis/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/order-vs-chaos-who-is-thriving-in-a-world-of-crisis.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}