{"podcast":{"title":"Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)","slug":"machine-learning-street-talk","podcast_index_feed_id":781643,"rss_url":"https://anchor.fm/s/1e4a0eac/podcast/rss","website_url":"https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk","image_url":"https://d3t3ozftmdmh3i.cloudfront.net/staging/podcast_uploaded_nologo/4981699/4981699-1757416025703-f026fa81b6d04.jpg","author":"Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)","episode_count":250,"summary":"Welcome! We engage in fascinating discussions with pre-eminent figures in the AI field. Our flagship show covers current affairs in AI, cognitive science, neuroscience and philosophy of mind with in-depth analysis. Our approach is unrivalled in terms of scope and rigour – we believe in intellectual diversity in AI, and we touch on all of the main ideas in the field with the hype surgically removed. MLST is run by Tim Scarfe, Ph.D (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ecsquizor/) and features regular appearances from MIT Doctor of Philosophy Keith Duggar (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-keith-duggar/).","last_synced_at":null,"page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk"},"episode":{"title":"When AI Discovers The Next Transformer - Robert Lange (Sakana)","slug":"when-ai-discovers-the-next-transformer-robert-lange-sakana","published_at":"2026-03-13T21:04:39+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/when-ai-discovers-the-next-transformer-robert-lange-sakana","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk","url":"https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk/episodes/When-AI-Discovers-The-Next-Transformer---Robert-Lange-Sakana-e3gdghe","audio_url":"https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO5182281422.mp3","summary":"Robert Lange, founding researcher at Sakana AI, joins Tim to discuss *Shinka Evolve* — a framework that combines LLMs with evolutionary algorithms to do open-ended program search. The core claim: systems like AlphaEvolve can optimize solutions to fixed problems, but real scientific progress requires co-evolving the problems themselves. GTC is coming, the premier AI conference, great opportunity to learn about AI. NVIDIA and partners will showcase breakthroughs in physical AI, AI factories, agentic AI, and inference, exploring the next wave of AI innovation for developers and researchers. Register for virtual GTC for free, using my link and win NVIDIA DGX Spark (https://nvda.ws/4qQ0LMg) • Why AlphaEvolve gets stuck — it needs a human to hand it the right problem. Shinka tries to invent new problems automatically, drawing on ideas from POET, PowerPlay, and MAP-Elites quality-diversity search. • The *architecture* of Shinka: an archive of programs organized as islands, LLMs used as mutation operators, and a UCB bandit that adaptively selects between frontier models (GPT-5, Sonnet 4.5, Gemini) mid-run. The credit-assignment problem across models turns out to be genuinely hard. • Concrete results — state-of-the-art circle packing with dramatically fewer evaluations, second place in an AtCoder competitive programming challenge, evolved load-balancing loss functions for mixture-of-experts models, and agent scaffolds for AIME math benchmarks. • Are these systems actually thinking outside the box, or are they parasitic on their starting conditions? When LLMs run autonomously, "nothing interesting happens." Robert pushes back with the stepping-stone argument — evolution doesn't need to extrapolate, just recombine usefully. • The AI Scientist question: can automated res…","meta_description":"Robert Lange, founding researcher at Sakana AI, joins Tim to discuss *Shinka Evolve* — a framework that combines LLMs with evolutionary algorithms to do o…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":4686,"processing_state":"processed","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/machine-learning-street-talk/episodes/when-ai-discovers-the-next-transformer-robert-lange-sakana/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/when-ai-discovers-the-next-transformer-robert-lange-sakana.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}