{"podcast":{"title":"Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)","slug":"machine-learning-street-talk","podcast_index_feed_id":781643,"rss_url":"https://anchor.fm/s/1e4a0eac/podcast/rss","website_url":"https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk","image_url":"https://d3t3ozftmdmh3i.cloudfront.net/staging/podcast_uploaded_nologo/4981699/4981699-1757416025703-f026fa81b6d04.jpg","author":"Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)","episode_count":262,"summary":"Welcome! We engage in fascinating discussions with pre-eminent figures in the AI field. Our flagship show covers current affairs in AI, cognitive science, neuroscience and philosophy of mind with in-depth analysis. Our approach is unrivalled in terms of scope and rigour – we believe in intellectual diversity in AI, and we touch on all of the main ideas in the field with the hype surgically removed. MLST is run by Tim Scarfe, Ph.D (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ecsquizor/) and features regular appearances from MIT Doctor of Philosophy Keith Duggar (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-keith-duggar/).","last_synced_at":"2026-09-09T02:20:14.331532+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk"},"episode":{"title":"Stealing Reasoning Traces from Proprietary LLM APIs — Ilia Shumailov & Alexander Panfilov","slug":"stealing-reasoning-traces-from-proprietary-llm-apis-ilia-shumailov-alexander-panfilov","published_at":"2026-08-22T20:29:11+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/stealing-reasoning-traces-from-proprietary-llm-apis-ilia-shumailov-alexander-panfilov","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk","url":"https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk/episodes/Stealing-Reasoning-Traces-from-Proprietary-LLM-APIs--Ilia-Shumailov--Alexander-Panfilov-e3nonlk","audio_url":"https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO1270776138.mp3","summary":"Tim Scarfe speaks with Ilia Shumailov and Alexander Panfilov about their paper, Stealing Reasoning Traces from Proprietary LLM APIs.The core bug sounds deceptively simple: providers return encrypted reasoning state so conversations can be resumed or forked. But those blobs can be replayed across users and sibling models. A smaller model can ask the provider to decrypt the trace, then repeat the hidden reasoning in plain text. The discussion covers leaked private data, a broadly reusable jailbreak, poisoned agent traces, chain-of-thought monitoring, responsible disclosure, and possible defenses.Ilia Shumailov is an AI and security researcher, formerly at Google DeepMind, who completed his Cambridge PhD under Ross Anderson. Alexander Panfilov is a PhD researcher at the ELLIS Institute Tübingen and the Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems, working on AI safety, adversarial machine learning, and LLM red-teaming. They close by separating the demonstrated jailbreaking threat from ordinary benign distillation, and by arguing for controlled experiments over sweeping claims.---TIMESTAMPS:00:00:00 Intro montage00:01:33 Portable encrypted thought and decoded reasoning00:24:55 How the attack works and what it means00:39:04 Doom, defense, and scientific restraint---REFERENCES:paper:[00:00:00] Stealing Reasoning Traces from Proprietary LLM APIshttps://arxiv.org/abs/2608.09867[00:09:22] Chain of Thought Monitorability: A New and Fragile Opportunity for AI Safetyhttps://arxiv.org/abs/2507.11473[00:11:30] Reasoning Models Don’t Always Say What They Thinkhttps://www.anthropic.com/research/reasoning-models-dont-say-think[00:37:22] PostTrainBench: Can LLM Agents Automate LLM Post-Training?https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.08640[00:41:02] Large-scale online deanonymization with LLMshttps:…","meta_description":"Tim Scarfe speaks with Ilia Shumailov and Alexander Panfilov about their paper, Stealing Reasoning Traces from Proprietary LLM APIs.The core bug sounds de…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":2940,"processing_state":"not_requested","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/machine-learning-street-talk/episodes/stealing-reasoning-traces-from-proprietary-llm-apis-ilia-shumailov-alexander-panfilov/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/stealing-reasoning-traces-from-proprietary-llm-apis-ilia-shumailov-alexander-panfilov.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}