{"podcast":{"title":"Dwarkesh Podcast","slug":"dwarkesh-podcast","podcast_index_feed_id":1251189,"rss_url":"https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/69345.rss","website_url":"https://www.dwarkesh.com/podcast","image_url":"https://substackcdn.com/feed/podcast/69345/db6ef1755a45c6e0e7a478f6dbe68984.jpg","author":"Dwarkesh Patel","episode_count":128,"summary":"Deeply researched interviews","last_synced_at":"2026-06-05T06:19:20.066984+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast"},"episode":{"title":"Ilya Sutskever — We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research","slug":"ilya-sutskever-we-re-moving-from-the-age-of-scaling-to-the-age-of-research","published_at":"2025-11-25T17:04:02+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast/ilya-sutskever-we-re-moving-from-the-age-of-scaling-to-the-age-of-research","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast","url":"https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/ilya-sutskever-2","audio_url":"https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/179924094/8fff4c8da77eff5a44fad5d13ae599e2.mp3","summary":"Ilya & I discuss SSI’s strategy, the problems with pre-training, how to improve the generalization of AI models, and how to ensure AGI goes well. Watch on YouTube ; read the transcript . Sponsors * Gemini 3 is the first model I’ve used that can find connections I haven’t anticipated. I recently wrote a blog post on RL’s information efficiency, and Gemini 3 helped me think it all through. It also generated the relevant charts and ran toy ML experiments for me with zero bugs. Try Gemini 3 today at gemini.google * Labelbox helped me create a tool to transcribe our episodes! I’ve struggled with transcription in the past because I don’t just want verbatim transcripts, I want transcripts reworded to read like essays. Labelbox helped me generate the exact data I needed for this. If you want to learn how Labelbox can help you (or if you want to try out the transcriber tool yourself), go to labelbox.com/dwarkesh * Sardine is an AI risk management platform that brings together thousands of device, behavior, and identity signals to help you assess a user’s risk of fraud & abuse. Sardine also offers a suite of agents to automate investigations so that as fraudsters use AI to scale their attacks, you can use AI to scale your defenses. Learn more at sardine.ai/dwarkesh To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/advertise . Timestamps (00:00:00) – Explaining model jaggedness (00:09:39) - Emotions and value functions (00:18:49) – What are we scaling? (00:25:13) – Why humans generalize better than models (00:35:45) – SSI’s plan to straight-shot superintelligence (00:46:47) – SSI’s model will learn from deployment (00:55:07) – How to think about powerful AGIs (01:18:13) – “We are squarely an age of research company” (01:20:23) – Self-play and multi-agent (01:32:42) – Research taste…","meta_description":"Ilya & I discuss SSI’s strategy, the problems with pre-training, how to improve the generalization of AI models, and how to ensure AGI goes well. Watch on…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":5763,"processing_state":"not_requested","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/dwarkesh-podcast/episodes/ilya-sutskever-we-re-moving-from-the-age-of-scaling-to-the-age-of-research/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast/ilya-sutskever-we-re-moving-from-the-age-of-scaling-to-the-age-of-research.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}