{"podcast":{"title":"Deconstructor of Fun","slug":"deconstructor-of-fun-223878","podcast_index_feed_id":223878,"rss_url":"https://anchor.fm/s/500026c/podcast/rss","website_url":"https://www.deconstructoroffun.com","image_url":"https://d3t3ozftmdmh3i.cloudfront.net/staging/podcast_uploaded_nologo/738867/738867-1707997600386-9686d82cf1bc9.jpg","author":"Deconstructor of Fun","episode_count":823,"summary":"Deconstructor of Fun podcast is created by games professionals for games professionals. We explore the business side of the games industry with the goal of bringing listeners content that is relevant, insightful, and entertaining on a weekly basis. Hosts: Michail Katkoff www.linkedin.com/in/michailkatkoff/ Eric Kress www.linkedin.com/in/erickress/ Phillip Black www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-black-economist/ Jen Donahoe www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferdonahoe","last_synced_at":"2026-09-14T22:20:05.879573+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/deconstructor-of-fun-223878"},"episode":{"title":"345. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of UA Financing","slug":"345-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-ua-financing","published_at":"2026-08-26T16:35:05+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/deconstructor-of-fun-223878/345-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-ua-financing","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/deconstructor-of-fun-223878","url":"https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/deconstructoroffun/episodes/345--The-Good--The-Bad-and-The-Ugly-of-UA-Financing-e3nu4nr","audio_url":"https://anchor.fm/s/500026c/podcast/play/124768443/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-7-26%2F430590088-44100-2-5d2924ed10d76.mp3","summary":"Everyone's telling you cohort financing is free money to scale. It's not, and the contract fine print is where that story falls apart.Josh Chandley (President & COO, Wildcard Games) sits down with Phil Mohr (CEO & Co-founder, Metica) and Martin Macmillan (Founder, Pollen Capital) to break down what cohort financing actually costs, who really takes the risk, and how founders keep getting burned by deals they don't fully understand. Martin lent almost $1B through Pollen VC with zero credit defaults over a decade. Phil looked at 40-50 games before Metica stopped writing new cohort deals altogether. Between them, they unpack the math the sales guys don't want you to run.Topics Covered:• UA financing vs cohort financing• Why receivables lending scaled down• The 80/20 mechanics of a cohort deal• Who actually takes the risk on a cohort• Cross-collateralization and disguised liens• What makes a good candidate for financing• Breakeven windows and LTV curve shape• The real annualized cost of cohort financing• How financing cost raises your effective CPI• Why finance and UA teams don't align• Getting free debt from your ad networks• Red flags in cohort financing contracts• What happens when a cohort underperforms• Debt plus equity hybrid dealsCHAPTERS: 00:00 Cohort Financing Hype00:36 Meet the Experts02:20 UA Financing Explained03:45 Receivables vs Cohorts05:20 How Cohort Deals Work09:04 Hidden Risks and Recourse11:06 Contract Traps to Watch15:39 Who Qualifies for Funding17:49 Payback Windows Sweet Spot18:54 LTV Curve and Game Types22:45 True Cost and IRR Math29:19 Financing Cost in UA Bids32:15 Data Truth and Real-Time Stops36:09 Cohort Risk And Timing37:01 Free Credit From Ad Networks38:40 Why Credit Lines Aren’t Enough43:42 VC Versus Lender Mindset47:05 Questions For C…","meta_description":"Everyone's telling you cohort financing is free money to scale. It's not, and the contract fine print is where that story falls apart.Josh Chandley (Presi…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":4422,"processing_state":"not_requested","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/deconstructor-of-fun-223878/episodes/345-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-ua-financing/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/deconstructor-of-fun-223878/345-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-ua-financing.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}