{"podcast":{"title":"AI & I","slug":"ai-i-6714658","podcast_index_feed_id":6714658,"rss_url":"https://feeds.transistor.fm/how-do-you-use-chatgpt","website_url":"https://every.to/","image_url":"https://img.transistorcdn.com/_unLmYM9CjKDeRXJOn7gFK3H6X2dny3KX6lhn0gohkg/rs:fill:0:0:1/w:1400/h:1400/q:60/mb:500000/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWct/dXBsb2FkLXByb2R1/Y3Rpb24udHJhbnNp/c3Rvci5mbS8yNDM2/YzU4NDNmYTQxNTJh/MTEzYjE4YmJmYTg5/ODY1NS5wbmc.jpg","author":"Dan Shipper","episode_count":121,"summary":"Learn how the smartest people in the world are using AI to think, create, and relate. Each week I interview founders, filmmakers, writers, investors, and others about how they use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Midjourney in their work and in their lives. We screen-share through their historical chats and then experiment with AI live on the show. Join us to discover how AI is changing how we think about our world—and ourselves. For more essays, interviews, and experiments at the forefront of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought?sort=newest.","last_synced_at":"2026-07-09T04:21:56.534028+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/ai-i-6714658"},"episode":{"title":"The AI Sandwich: Where Humans Excel in an AI World","slug":"the-ai-sandwich-where-humans-excel-in-an-ai-world","published_at":"2026-04-22T18:51:01+00:00","page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/ai-i-6714658/the-ai-sandwich-where-humans-excel-in-an-ai-world","show_page_url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/ai-i-6714658","url":"https://share.transistor.fm/s/b5a0afae","audio_url":"https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/media.transistor.fm/b5a0afae/91e7e7f9.mp3","summary":"Most frameworks for working with AI agents assume humans should stay in the loop at every phase. That’s the wrong approach, says Cora general manager Kieran Klaassen . Kieran is the creator of Every's AI-native engineering methodology, compound engineering. His four-step framework—plan, work, review, compound—rebuilds how engineers work with agents. The insight, worked out with collaborator Trevin Chow, is about when to be in the loop and when to step away and let the model handle it. \"LLMs are very good at just following steps, doing deep work, working for hours—days even now,\" Kieran says. \"That thing is kind of solved.\" Kieran and Trevin describe an AI workflow as a sandwich. Agents are the workhorse filling, and humans are the bread, responsible for framing the problem at the start and reviewing the outputs at the end. Every CEO Dan Shipper talked with Kieran for AI & I about why setting the frame of a problem is still hard for agents, why simulated personas won't replace human judgment, Dan's bar for AGI—an agent worth running 24/7 with no off switch—and what Kieran's background as a classical composer taught him about performance, polish, and finding the parts of work that bring you joy. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Head to http://granola.ai/every and get 3 months free with the code EVERY To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Discover more resources in the episode Compound engineering plugin: https://github.com/EveryInc/compound-engineering-plugin Compound engineering guide: https://every.to/source-code/compound-engineering-the-definitive-guide Compound engineering camp: https://every.to/source-code/compound-engineering…","meta_description":"Most frameworks for working with AI agents assume humans should stay in the loop at every phase. That’s the wrong approach, says Cora general manager Kier…","key_points":[],"chapters":[],"topics":[],"duration_seconds":1711,"processing_state":"not_requested","actions":[{"name":"request_transcript","method":"POST","url":"https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/ai-i-6714658/episodes/the-ai-sandwich-where-humans-excel-in-an-ai-world/transcription-requests","description":"Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode."},{"name":"read_markdown","method":"GET","url":"https://stenobird.com/podcast/ai-i-6714658/the-ai-sandwich-where-humans-excel-in-an-ai-world.md","description":"Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource."}]}}