# Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/zero-click-marketing-7753148/tell-your-execs-ai-rankings-are-bs-with-rand-fishkin
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/zero-click-marketing-7753148/tell-your-execs-ai-rankings-are-bs-with-rand-fishkin.md
Podcast: [Zero Click Marketing](https://stenobird.com/podcast/zero-click-marketing-7753148)
Published: 2026-03-12T11:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://share.transistor.fm/s/2a9e19f7
Audio file: https://media.transistor.fm/2a9e19f7/6a155091.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/zero-click-marketing-7753148/episodes/tell-your-execs-ai-rankings-are-bs-with-rand-fishkin
Duration seconds: 2146

## Resource

You know the zero click problem is real. But how do you get your CEO or CMO on board — and how do you prove it's working once they are? In this episode, I chat with Rand Fishkin to talk measurement frameworks, his new AI visibility research , and why correlation (not causation) is the name of the game. Guest: Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro Key takeaway: Zero Click Marketing is not about giving up on sales or clicks. It’s about accepting that influence often happens before the click — and measuring that influence more honestly. Timestamps: 00:00 "All the things that happen in a zero click environment will eventually lead to the same thing that clicks led to" 01:13 What do you tell an executive who believes in zero click but doesn't know what to do next? 04:20 How to start thinking about measurement when there's no single dashboard to point to 07:41 The double standard: executives are comfortable with fuzzy measurement for TV and display ads, but demand perfect attribution for content, influencers, and PR 11:02 Where your competitors refuse to invest leaves more room for you 14:07 AI hype as a Trojan horse to convince skeptics: if you believe AI is the future, what's the logical conclusion of AI summarizing content? 17:22 AI as both the cause of and a mental model for zero click 19:14 Rand and Gumshoe's AI visibility research: Rand noticed AI gives different answers to the same prompt every time, which made him skeptical of the entire AI rank-tracking industry 24:12 The big finding: you'd need ~1,000 prompts to get the same ranked answer — rank tracking is unreliable. But brand visibility percentage is real. 29:08 AI visibility as a trackable indicator for zero click marketing success 33:36 Myth busting: zero click marketing ≠ zero sales, and it's not just…

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## Transcript

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