# Ep 69: Co-Founder of Databricks & LMArena on Current Eval Limitations, Why China is Winning Open Source and Future of AI Infrastructure

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/unsupervised-learning-with-jacob-effron-6041643/ep-69-co-founder-of-databricks-lmarena-on-current-eval-limitations-why-china-is-winning-open-source-and-future-of-ai-infrastructure
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/unsupervised-learning-with-jacob-effron-6041643/ep-69-co-founder-of-databricks-lmarena-on-current-eval-limitations-why-china-is-winning-open-source-and-future-of-ai-infrastructure.md
Podcast: [Unsupervised Learning with Jacob Effron](https://stenobird.com/podcast/unsupervised-learning-with-jacob-effron-6041643)
Published: 2025-06-17T12:56:23+00:00
Episode link: https://unsupervised-learning.simplecast.com/episodes/ep-69-co-founder-of-databricks-lmarena-on-current-eval-limitations-why-china-is-winning-open-source-and-future-of-ai-infrastructure-I9ANfUP9
Audio file: https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/2c08ad29-5b79-42c0-a40a-6c1af4327f2f/episodes/12204783-5123-4771-a61d-172a2577a1df/audio/14df9619-685d-4c97-8fb4-b969e25ed2ca/default_tc.mp3?aid=rss_feed&feed=dOSE_bdP
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Duration seconds: 3297

## Resource

Ion Stoica helped define the modern data stack. Now he’s coming for AI evaluation. From co-founding Databricks and Anyscale to launching LMArena, Ion has shaped the infrastructure underlying some of the biggest shifts in computing. In this conversation, he unpacks what most people get wrong about model evaluation, the infrastructure challenges ahead for agents and heterogeneous compute, and why he believes the U.S. is structurally disadvantaged in open-source AI compared to China.

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## Transcript

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