# Tom Goodwin and Rory Sutherland Fix Marketing (Part 2)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/uncensored-cmo-257995/tom-goodwin-and-rory-sutherland-fix-marketing-part-2
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/uncensored-cmo-257995/tom-goodwin-and-rory-sutherland-fix-marketing-part-2.md
Podcast: [Uncensored CMO](https://stenobird.com/podcast/uncensored-cmo-257995)
Published: 2026-05-27T00:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://ucmo.transistor.fm/267
Audio file: https://media.transistor.fm/0fa7004d/323ad265.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/uncensored-cmo-257995/episodes/tom-goodwin-and-rory-sutherland-fix-marketing-part-2
Duration seconds: 3892

## Resource

Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin return for part two of our wide-ranging conversation on the future of marketing, creativity, and business. From driverless cars and Silicon Valley thinking, to the dangers of digitising every human interaction, Rory and Tom explore what businesses lose when efficiency becomes the only goal. They also discuss why governments need creative departments, whether we truly understand how advertising works, and how marketers can finally gain the influence they deserve inside organisations. Timestamps: 00:00 - Start 00:56 - What will be the advertising agency of the future? 10:39 - How to change the way we think about ad agencies 15:42 - Why the government need a creative department 19:44 - Creativity isn’t dead because AI only uses data from the past 22:32 - How marketers can achieve the influence they deserve 24:08 - Do we really know how advertising works? 29:29 - Is Tesla applying marketing thinking? 31:58 - The future of driverless cars and the danger of Silicon Valley 44:03 - Human interaction vs digitising everything 47:43 - Tom and Rory’s advice for CMOs

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## Transcript

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