# Listen, Act, Explain: The Trust Playbook

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/trusttalk-it-s-all-about-trust-7064551/listen-act-explain-the-trust-playbook
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/trusttalk-it-s-all-about-trust-7064551/listen-act-explain-the-trust-playbook.md
Podcast: [TrustTalk - It's all about Trust](https://stenobird.com/podcast/trusttalk-it-s-all-about-trust-7064551)
Published: 2025-10-23T04:31:01+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/listen-act-explain-the-trust-playbook--68248887
Audio file: https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/68248887/061a96af_e970_4bec_b4a3_e950c78d1524.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/trusttalk-it-s-all-about-trust-7064551/episodes/listen-act-explain-the-trust-playbook
Duration seconds: 1361

## Resource

Trust in institutions, says Chris Long, professor at St. John’s University in New York City and a leading scholar on trust, control, and institutional contradictions, erodes when there’s a gap between what organizations say and what they actually do. These “institutional contradictions”, when stated values and real-world behaviour diverge, create confusion and cynicism among citizens and employees alike. In this conversation, Chris explores why such contradictions are so damaging, how they emerge, and what leaders can do to repair the trust that’s lost as a result. He refers to striking examples: from the Dutch childcare benefits scandal (het Toeslagenschandaal), where automated systems falsely labeled thousands of families as fraudsters, often targeting those with foreign-sounding names, to the Volkswagen emissions case, Germany’s Wirecard collapse, and earlier accounting scandals such as Arthur Andersen. These moments, he argues, are not just technical failures but moral ones: “Institutions must first acknowledge what went wrong, in detail, and explain the logic that led to it. Only then can corrective actions sound credible.” They show how technology, bureaucracy, and misaligned incentives can devastate public trust together. Chris also discusses the fine line between control and trust inside organizations. After Covid, many leaders demanded employees return to the office without consultation, framing control as discipline rather than dialogue. Absolute trust, he insists, grows when people are given a voice and when leaders show vulnerability, asking for people’s opinions, and showing how those opinions shape their decisions. From the Tylenol crisis of the 1980s to modern corporate and political scandals, Chris’s message is consistent: trust is rebuilt only through…

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## Transcript

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