# Ep 259: Reaction to Michael Levin Part 3: Bait and Switch, Podcastistan and Surprising(?) algorithms.

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/tokcast-76992/ep-259-reaction-to-michael-levin-part-3-bait-and-switch-podcastistan-and-surprising-algorithms
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/tokcast-76992/ep-259-reaction-to-michael-levin-part-3-bait-and-switch-podcastistan-and-surprising-algorithms.md
Podcast: [ToKCast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/tokcast-76992)
Published: 2026-03-11T12:25:10+00:00
Episode link: https://brettroberthall.podbean.com/e/ep-259-reaction-to-michael-levin-part-3-bait-and-switch-podcastistan-and-surprising-algorithms/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/h67b7z9ixdwb5ad8/Levin_3_podcastb82oq.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/tokcast-76992/episodes/ep-259-reaction-to-michael-levin-part-3-bait-and-switch-podcastistan-and-surprising-algorithms
Duration seconds: 3575

## Resource

In this, the third and final part of a series, I break down some work Michael Levin has done with sorting algorithms. That seems very dry until you hear his claim that these algorithms that are well known and have been studied for decades exhibit extremely unusual behaviour never before spotted because "no one ever bothered to look". This part of the interview is between Ferris and Levin is referring to this paper: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/10597123241269740 which is available on the arXiv at https://arxiv.org/pdf/2401.05375 and which a Forbes writer authored this "explainer" of sorts here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2025/11/13/the-secret-life-of-algorithms/ and which Levin himself explains here: https://thoughtforms.life/algorithms-redux-finding-unexpected-properties-in-truly-minimal-systems/ Michael Levin has done some very interesting work in biology around worms regrowing heads and so on. But this "research" is quite a departure from that. Get my book here: https://www.amazon.com/Farthest-Reaches-Important-Entities-Universe/dp/B0GRR2LLZV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=157SNHQC0QFHK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.D5jlSZxhaQmrjzrnV209t0-bvV-i5un48Fwu5tb8Y42AKywnL9YRXJ8ylEe8EPH2SBLoKpU2AXag0llMQ3XfVILgUrAiohRqKjRaBiNdrcUqVQIV6MyEUBdAWiwjufzS4dCs_m5HBm-Px8errzQVyqzjO7F9UEGMeOgpjDGyJBB5Qbi98LHHSYb91z0J5sP9fRT8BaP4wXNvi4p0Va4kbQNBXxPjUb0OOwORDDGbWGo.HBT8A2pQNHYK8NyTIn91VtLaPJEMt17xp7qCt4bNcv4&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+farthest+reaches&qid=1773231582&sprefix=the+farthest+reac%2Caps%2C346&sr=8-1

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## Transcript

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