# 467. Industrial Policy by Other Means (ft. Matt Haugen, Jesse Goldenstein)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/467-industrial-policy-by-other-means-ft-matt-haugen-jesse-goldenstein
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/467-industrial-policy-by-other-means-ft-matt-haugen-jesse-goldenstein.md
Podcast: [This Machine Kills](https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599)
Published: 2026-07-24T22:56:21+00:00
Episode link: https://soundcloud.com/thismachinekillspod/467-industrial-policy-by-other
Audio file: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2367494942-thismachinekillspod-467-industrial-policy-by-other.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/this-machine-kills-428599/episodes/467-industrial-policy-by-other-means-ft-matt-haugen-jesse-goldenstein
Duration seconds: 5116

## Resource

We chat with Matt Haugen and Jesse Goldenstein from the Climate + Community Institute about a new report they co-authored laying out how the US is engaging in industrial policy for AI development in ways that are often indirect, inconsistent, and interpersonal, but ultimately are configured around supporting a specific configuration of (venture) capitalist strategy for intensive, rapid development, all while making political economic choices that prioritize anti-social infrastructure over social well-being and environmental protections. ••• AI First: How the Federal Government is Prioritizing AI Over People and Planet https://stopgreedbuildgreen.climateandcommunity.org/posts/ai-first ••• Honey, We Need To Talk About Venture Socialism https://www.butthistime.com/p/honey-we-need-to-talk-about-venture-5cb Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

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## Transcript

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