# 443. Behold the Big Beautiful AI State (ft. Brian Chen)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/443-behold-the-big-beautiful-ai-state-ft-brian-chen
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/443-behold-the-big-beautiful-ai-state-ft-brian-chen.md
Podcast: [This Machine Kills](https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599)
Published: 2026-02-04T01:44:53+00:00
Episode link: https://soundcloud.com/thismachinekillspod/443-behold-the-big-beautiful-ai-state-ft-brian-chen
Audio file: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2259757601-thismachinekillspod-443-behold-the-big-beautiful-ai-state-ft-brian-chen.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/this-machine-kills-428599/episodes/443-behold-the-big-beautiful-ai-state-ft-brian-chen
Duration seconds: 4366

## Resource

We’re joined by Brian Chen — policy director at Data & Society — to discuss his new report on the Trump administration’s industrial policy for building The Big AI State. We lay out how Trump’s is bringing together various forms of intervention to ensure America achieves “global technological dominance.” This includes de-risking the construction of data centers and energy infrastructure, ensuring the American AI tech stack takes over global markets, and even acquiring equity stakes in major private industries in the AI supply chain. We discuss the means and ends of Trump’s industrial policy — and how these policy tools should be wielded differently by future administrations. ••• Great Power Antinomies https://www.phenomenalworld.org/analysis/great-power-antinomies/ ••• The Big AI State https://datasociety.net/library/the-big-ai-state/ Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

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## Transcript

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