# 441. The Fight Over AI Use in Mental Healthcare (ft. Ciara Keegan, Ilana Marcucci-Morris)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/441-the-fight-over-ai-use-in-mental-healthcare-ft-ciara-keegan-ilana-marcucci-morris
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599/441-the-fight-over-ai-use-in-mental-healthcare-ft-ciara-keegan-ilana-marcucci-morris.md
Podcast: [This Machine Kills](https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-machine-kills-428599)
Published: 2026-01-21T03:20:05+00:00
Episode link: https://soundcloud.com/thismachinekillspod/441-the-fight-over-ai-use-in-mental-healthcare-ft-ciara-keegan-ilana-marcucci-morris
Audio file: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2251230269-thismachinekillspod-441-the-fight-over-ai-use-in-mental-healthcare-ft-ciara-keegan-ilana-marcucci-morris.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/this-machine-kills-428599/episodes/441-the-fight-over-ai-use-in-mental-healthcare-ft-ciara-keegan-ilana-marcucci-morris
Duration seconds: 4186

## Resource

We chat with Ciara Keegan and Ilana Marcucci-Morris from the National Union of Healthcare Workers about their ongoing contract dispute with Kaiser Permamente over the use and role of AI in healthcare, especially mental and behavioural health. We discuss the impacts of AI on labor conditions and patient care in giant hospital systems like Kaiser — plus the ways Kaiser wants to leave the door open for deeper integration of AI and replacement of healthcare providers. ••• Kaiser, Don't Deny | NUHW https://kaiserdontdeny.org/ ••• Will AI Replace Your Therapist? Kaiser Won’t Say No https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no ••• Therapists went on a hunger strike to protest 'assembly line' conditions and the automation of mental healthcare https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p/therapists-went-on-a-hunger-strike Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

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