# Is the “True European Army” coming? – Macron, France and the future of European defence

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/is-the-true-european-army-coming-macron-france-and-the-future-of-european-defence
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/is-the-true-european-army-coming-macron-france-and-the-future-of-european-defence.md
Podcast: [This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler](https://stenobird.com/podcast/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337)
Published: 2026-07-16T03:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/NSR3111566816.mp3
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/NSR3111566816.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/this-is-not-a-drill-with-gavin-esler-4458337/episodes/is-the-true-european-army-coming-macron-france-and-the-future-of-european-defence
Duration seconds: 1535

## Resource

European security is in a state of crisis that would have been hard to imagine when Emmanuel Macron took office as French President in 2017. What happens when a President whose term has been so dominated by the threat of Russia, the fate of NATO and fears for Europe’s independence comes to the end of his term? Fresh from the NATO summit, Macron turned his final Bastille Day into a statement of European unity and resolve – but questions remain over his successor, European rearmament and America’s commitment to NATO. Could the ‘true European Army’ that Macron once posited by the answer? Gavin Esler talks it over with Sophie Pedder, Paris bureau chief at The Economist. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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