# Episode 5 : 10 Ukrainians vs NATO: The Impetus for Adaptation with Bryan Daugherty

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308/episode-5-10-ukrainians-vs-nato-the-impetus-for-adaptation-with-bryan-daugherty
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308/episode-5-10-ukrainians-vs-nato-the-impetus-for-adaptation-with-bryan-daugherty.md
Podcast: [Think.Fight.Learn.Repeat.](https://stenobird.com/podcast/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308)
Published: 2026-04-06T00:08:02+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lex8899/episodes/Episode-5--10-Ukrainians-vs-NATO-The-Impetus-for-Adaptation-with-Bryan-Daugherty-e3hfqdu
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/10fffbd64/podcast/play/118007678/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-3-5%2Facd16e95-5400-bd50-b56a-c35c23267466.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308/episodes/episode-5-10-ukrainians-vs-nato-the-impetus-for-adaptation-with-bryan-daugherty
Duration seconds: 3706

## Resource

What happens when a small team of Ukrainian soldiers outperforms two NATO battalions in a major military exercise? In this episode, we sit down with defence expert Bryan Daugherty to unpack his provocative War on the Rocks article of NATO’s recent training with Ukrainian forces, and why it reveals the importance of training to failure to adapt and innovate. Bryan explains how Ukraine has developed a faster, more adaptive way of fighting, one built on rapid innovation, decentralized decision-making, and real-world combat feedback. During our discussion, we explore NATO's Exercise Hedgehog 2025, where expectations diverged from reality, and why that gap matters far beyond the training environment. The conversation also dives into the evolving NATO–Ukraine partnership, the challenges of integrating hard-earned battlefield lessons, and the risks of misinterpretation.

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## Transcript

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