# Episode 4 : Hybrid Deterrence and Countering China with Lucas Ziller

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308/episode-4-hybrid-deterrence-and-countering-china-with-lucas-ziller.md
Podcast: [Think.Fight.Learn.Repeat.](https://stenobird.com/podcast/think-fight-learn-repeat-7782308)
Published: 2026-03-31T23:29:10+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lex8899/episodes/Episode-4--Hybrid-Deterrence-and-Countering-China-with-Lucas-Ziller-e3h8mra
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/10fffbd64/podcast/play/117774634/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-2-31%2F79ff9b49-e85d-7810-8d7b-265bcb90ff79.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2422

## Resource

This week, we sit down with Lucas Ziller, U.S. Army officer and military scholar, to explore modern strategic competition and deterrence in the Indo-Pacific. Lucas is the author of the article, “A Hybrid Deterrence Model for Countering China,” published in the Spring 2026 issue of Parameters . In this episode, we discuss: The limits of traditional deterrence in addressing China’s coercive strategies How a hybrid approach combining diplomatic, informational, military, and economic tools can strengthen U.S. strategic posture Practical frameworks for countering Chinese influence below the threshold of armed conflict Insights from Lucas’s military and academic experience on modern deterrence Read Lucas’s article: A Hybrid Deterrence Model for Countering China Whether you’re a student of international security, military strategy, or global affairs, this episode provides a deep dive into one of today’s most pressing strategic challenges.

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## Transcript

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