# Rob Spekkens: Why the Quantum Wave Function Is Not Real

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/theories-of-everything-with-curt-jaimungal-6685488/rob-spekkens-why-the-quantum-wave-function-is-not-real
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/theories-of-everything-with-curt-jaimungal-6685488/rob-spekkens-why-the-quantum-wave-function-is-not-real.md
Podcast: [Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal](https://stenobird.com/podcast/theories-of-everything-with-curt-jaimungal-6685488)
Published: 2026-02-02T19:11:00+00:00
Episode link: https://s.gum.fm/s-62d83916a854b1cc0031878d/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/TEMI9779067749.mp3?updated=1770060827
Audio file: https://s.gum.fm/s-62d83916a854b1cc0031878d/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/TEMI9779067749.mp3?updated=1770060827
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Duration seconds: 10076

## Resource

From Ancient Egypt to Leibniz... Brand‑new interview out with Robert Spekkens of the Perimeter Institute, one of the sharpest minds working on quantum foundations. In 2004, he constructed a classical toy theory where your maximum knowledge is always incomplete—and out popped the no-cloning theorem, teleportation, and interference effects Feynman deemed impossible to reproduce classically. Spekkens compares our situation to Egyptian hieroglyphs before Champollion: a category mistake where we treat quantum states as descriptions of reality when they actually describe knowledge of reality. If you’re interested in the topics above, you’ll love this podcast. As a listener of TOE you can get a special 20% off discount to The Economist and all it has to offer! Visit https://www.economist.com/toe SUPPORT: - Support me on Substack: https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe - Support me on Crypto: https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/de803625-87d3-4300-ab6d-85d4258834a9 - Support me on PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4 JOIN MY SUBSTACK (Personal Writings): https://curtjaimungal.substack.com LISTEN ON SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e TIMESTAMPS: - 00:00:00 - Defining Quantum Innovation - 00:06:40 - Realism vs. Empiricism - 00:12:12 - Leibnizian Methodological Principle - 00:23:40 - Causal Explanations of Correlations - 00:30:24 - Epistemic Quantum States - 00:41:00 - Foil Theory Methodology - 00:54:00 - Causal Influence vs. Signaling - 01:07:27 - Thermodynamics and Ignorance - 01:15:00 - Conceptual Understanding in Physics - 01:21:00 - Philosophy of Physics Utility - 01:30:00 - Speckins' Toy Theory Origins - 01:40:13 - Perimeter Institute's Ambitious DNA - 01:52:00 - PBR Theorem Implications - 02:05:40 - Ontic S…

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