# 434: ‘Knee-Jerk Contrarian’, With Dan Frommer

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-talk-show-with-john-gruber-388809/434-knee-jerk-contrarian-with-dan-frommer.md
Podcast: [The Talk Show With John Gruber](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-talk-show-with-john-gruber-388809)
Published: 2025-11-18T22:23:41+00:00
Episode link: https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/2025/11/18/ep-434
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/daringfireball/thetalkshow-434-dan-frommer.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-talk-show-with-john-gruber-388809/episodes/434-knee-jerk-contrarian-with-dan-frommer
Duration seconds: 6842

## Resource

Special guest Dan Frommer returns to the show. Topics include the indie media business, the iPhone Pocket, the iPhone Air (including rumors about the second generation model), AI “personalities”, and five years of Apple Silicon Macs. Also, six years of Dan’s site, The New Consumer.

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## Transcript

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