# 443 - Kale Zelden - There’s Still Time to Read the Great Books

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-symbolic-world-1141216/443-kale-zelden-there-s-still-time-to-read-the-great-books
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-symbolic-world-1141216/443-kale-zelden-there-s-still-time-to-read-the-great-books.md
Podcast: [The Symbolic World](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-symbolic-world-1141216)
Published: 2026-04-01T13:35:04+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/443-kale-zelden-there-s-still-time-to-read-the-great-books--71024042
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/71024042/2026_03_kale_zelden_final_31mar2026_5pm_01.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-symbolic-world-1141216/episodes/443-kale-zelden-there-s-still-time-to-read-the-great-books
Duration seconds: 3875

## Resource

Kale Zelden is a literature teacher and writer and in this video he joins me to discuss reading, the "Great books", and what it means to recover the reading tradition in a modern context. We talk about how to encounter old texts, what reading can contribute to our lives, and how to approach authors like Homer, Dante, and Shakespeare without reducing them to modern assumptions. We also explore the limits of the novel, modernism, postmodernism, irony, and the essential rediscovery of the epic. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/9zps7RIov44 Kale’s Substack, The Underneath: https://kalezelden.substack.com/ Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Learn more about Pavel Shchelin's phenomenal course on Plutarch, Live now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Coming up 01:07 - Intro music 01:32 - Introduction 02:09 - The state of education 07:30 - First of all 10:47 - The power of analogy 13:11 - Select your curriculum 21:05 - What is canon? 33:24 - What are we moving towards 39:20 - Allegory 43:47 - What is modernism? 47:50 - Great books program 53:24 - What is the epic? BOOKS MENTIONED IN THIS DISCUSSION: 00:04:45 Augustine — Confessions — Spiritual autobiography, early Christian thought Plato — Dialogues — Philosophy of truth, justice, knowledge Aristotle — (various works) — Ethics, logic, metaphysics Church Fathers — (various writings) — Foundations of Christian theology 00:06:20 Anne Rice — (novels) — Modern popular fiction Shakespeare — (general works) — Foundational drama Beowulf — Anonymous — Old English ep…

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