# From Google to Salesforce: A Transformation Leader on Why People Resist Change | Travis Hahler

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-strategy-and-leadership-podcast-with-anthony-c-taylor-325713/from-google-to-salesforce-a-transformation-leader-on-why-people-resist-change-travis-hahler
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-strategy-and-leadership-podcast-with-anthony-c-taylor-325713/from-google-to-salesforce-a-transformation-leader-on-why-people-resist-change-travis-hahler.md
Podcast: [The Strategy and Leadership Podcast with Anthony C. Taylor](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-strategy-and-leadership-podcast-with-anthony-c-taylor-325713)
Published: 2026-07-14T20:42:05+00:00
Episode link: https://episode.flightcast.com/hsgltm4sy97r5gthtpvyw6xq.mp3
Audio file: https://episode.flightcast.com/hsgltm4sy97r5gthtpvyw6xq.mp3
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Duration seconds: 1779

## Resource

What if resistance to change isn't stubbornness or rebellion, but biology? Travis Hahler has spent nearly two decades sitting between great strategies and the people who have to adopt them, and he has a startling answer for why so many transformations stall: change signals threat to the human brain, and most leaders have no idea they are triggering it. In this episode of the SME Strategy and Leadership Podcast, host Anthony Taylor sits down with Travis Hahler, Senior Director of Global Strategy and Transformation at Salesforce, former Global Change and Transformation Lead at Google, and founder of The Neurological Nomad. Drawing on a background that spans neuroscience research, an MBA, and change leadership at Google, Salesforce, and Deloitte, Travis brings a rare fusion of brain science and boardroom experience to the question every leader eventually faces: how do you actually get people to move? Together they unpack why 70 percent of change initiatives fail to achieve their expected ROI, how the brain interprets organizational change as a loss of competence, relationships, or control, and why urgency and free rein so often backfire. Travis shares the practical shift that separates the successful 30 percent from the rest, including why your program manager gets a project live but your change manager is the one who actually delivers the return. What You Will Learn in This Episode How the brain interprets organizational change as a threat, and what leaders consistently misread when teams push back Why every change equals loss, and how to lead through the three types of loss people experience at work: competence, relationships, and control Why "just go play with it" is the wrong way to roll out AI, and what people actually need before they will engage The difference betw…

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