# Scaling Uber with Thuan Pham (Uber’s first CTO)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-engineer-7019833/scaling-uber-with-thuan-pham-uber-s-first-cto
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-engineer-7019833/scaling-uber-with-thuan-pham-uber-s-first-cto.md
Podcast: [The Pragmatic Engineer](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-engineer-7019833)
Published: 2026-04-01T16:49:59+00:00
Episode link: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/scaling-uber-with-thuan-pham-ubers
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/192665750/82d0e0cf948533ce23100e6506426eb0.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-pragmatic-engineer-7019833/episodes/scaling-uber-with-thuan-pham-uber-s-first-cto
Duration seconds: 5935

## Resource

Brought to You By: • Statsig — ⁠ The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more. • Sonar – The makers of SonarQube, the industry standard for automated code review • WorkOS – Everything you need to make your app enterprise ready. — Thuan Pham was Uber's first and longest-serving CTO, and today he’s the CTO of Faire, a B2B wholesale platform. Back when Thuan joined Uber, it had around 40 engineers and 30,000 rides per day, and the system crashed multiple times a week. Over seven years, he helped rebuild the system, move it from a monolith to microservices, and scaled the engineering organization behind it. I had the privilege of working with Thuan for four of those seven years. Later, the very first issue of The Pragmatic Engineer newsletter was a deepdive into Uber’s Program and Platform split . This episode of the podcast contains a nice “full circle” moment, where Thuan shares even more details about why Uber chose to embrace that structure. We discuss what it takes to operate and build in that kind of environment. Thuan explains how he divided his time at Uber into three “tours of duty,” from stabilizing a fragile system, to re-architecting it, and scaling the org. We go deep into the platform-and-program split, the Helix app rewrite, and what it took to launch Uber in China in just five months (the original estimate was 18 months). We also cover Uber’s in-house tools and explain why they were necessary to support rapid growth. Finally, we discuss his role today as CTO of Faire, how the company is using AI, and how he sees AI changing software engineering. — Timestamps (00:00) Intro (05:32) Getting into tech (16:09) The dot-com bust (20:42) VMware (26:29) Getting hired by Travis at Uber (33:22) Early days at Uber and scaling challenges (40:57) Uber…

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