# Before & After: Inside the New Book from the Storytelling with Data Team

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-policyviz-podcast-1096919/before-after-inside-the-new-book-from-the-storytelling-with-data-team
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-policyviz-podcast-1096919/before-after-inside-the-new-book-from-the-storytelling-with-data-team.md
Podcast: [The PolicyViz Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-policyviz-podcast-1096919)
Published: 2026-01-28T05:15:00+00:00
Episode link: https://zencastr.com/z/JwE2MxYq
Audio file: https://redirect.zencastr.com/r/episode/6963dc5e4bde8322fb1380b0/size/64900032/audio-files/5a0b59c06ebaa2000f259f8d/07539dce-54a1-48f9-a5a6-c775948ca8c6.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-policyviz-podcast-1096919/episodes/before-after-inside-the-new-book-from-the-storytelling-with-data-team
Duration seconds: 2636

## Resource

In this episode, I'm joined by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic and Mike Cisneros from Storytelling with Data to talk about their new book, Before & After. We dig into where the examples came from, how they selected and refined real client work, and why the book focuses so heavily on process rather than rules or templates. We also reflect on how the data visualization field has evolved over the past decade—from best practices and chart types to iteration, audience empathy, and real-world constraints. Along the way, we talk about teaching data viz, common pitfalls, and why there's no such thing as a true "201 course"—only practice. Keywords: ddata visualization, storytelling with data, data storytelling, before and after charts, visualization process, data communication, chart design, visual analytics, design iteration, audience-focused data, PolicyViz Podcast, Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, Mike Cisneros Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast [https://patreon.com/policyviz?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink] for as little as a buck a month Grab the new book, Before and After - Practical Makeovers for Powerful Data Stories [https://amzn.to/49OPs0L] Follow me on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/jschwabish/?hl=en], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanschwabish/], Substack [https://jschwabish.substack.com/], Twitter [https://twitter.com/jschwabish], Website [https://policyviz.com/], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/c/JonSchwabish] Email: jon@policyviz.com [jschwabish@gmail.com]

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