# Episode 21: What Is a Fractional CMO & Why You Probably Need One | The Paper Jacket Podcast

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-paper-jacket-podcast-7101821/episode-21-what-is-a-fractional-cmo-why-you-probably-need-one-the-paper-jacket-podcast
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-paper-jacket-podcast-7101821/episode-21-what-is-a-fractional-cmo-why-you-probably-need-one-the-paper-jacket-podcast.md
Podcast: [The Paper Jacket Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-paper-jacket-podcast-7101821)
Published: 2025-10-28T18:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/paper-jacket-podcast/episodes/Episode-21-What-Is-a-Fractional-CMO--Why-You-Probably-Need-One--The-Paper-Jacket-Podcast-e3arr0u
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/109ef56f0/podcast/play/111061470/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-10-12%2F7b390e62-3abf-f504-6ec5-3387c26164a0.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2481

## Resource

This episode features Kyle Hays , co-founder of Andrew & West , a firm that offers fractional executive leadership for small to mid-sized businesses that are stuck and scaling at the same time. Kyle unpacks the difference between marketing and advertising (spoiler: it’s huge), explains why ROI isn’t always linear, and breaks down why most business owners hit a ceiling they can’t get past. Whether you're a $2M startup or a $60M company running on fumes, Kyle shares what it takes to actually scale without burning out. This one's packed with practical insights, real-world analogies (including one about tires), and a reality check for anyone who thinks they can “just hire a young person for social.” 🧠 Great for: Business owners, COOs, marketers, startup founders 📊 Services: Fractional CMO, CRO, CEO coaching, marketing team audits 🌐 Learn more: https://www.andrewandwest.com 🎬 Produced by: https://paper-jacket.com

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## Transcript

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