# Michaela Anne + Aaron Shafer-Haiss on intuition vs assumption, creative ownership, and vulnerability as a faucet.

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-other-22-hours-6074570/michaela-anne-aaron-shafer-haiss-on-intuition-vs-assumption-creative-ownership-and-vulnerability-as-a-faucet
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-other-22-hours-6074570/michaela-anne-aaron-shafer-haiss-on-intuition-vs-assumption-creative-ownership-and-vulnerability-as-a-faucet.md
Podcast: [The Other 22 Hours](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-other-22-hours-6074570)
Published: 2026-05-20T11:00:52+00:00
Episode link: https://www.theother22hours.com
Audio file: https://audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/b1ad3002-1719-4081-a579-c96d1b5caa8e/stream.mp3
Processing state: not_requested
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-other-22-hours-6074570/episodes/michaela-anne-aaron-shafer-haiss-on-intuition-vs-assumption-creative-ownership-and-vulnerability-as-a-faucet
Duration seconds: 3132

## Resource

To celebrate our 150th episode, we try a bit of an experiment: interviewing ourselves, for the first time. After nearly two decades of partnership, we examine the evolution of the creative self. Michaela Anne, whose fifth record These Are The Days marks the first record that she retains total ownership of in over a decade, discusses the "massive shift of self" required to walk away from industry gatekeepers. Aaron Shafer-Haiss, whose compositions have scored major network dramas like Station 19 and The Good Doctor, reflects on the "utilitarian creativity" of a producer. It is a conversation about resilience, the "growth seesaw" of a creative marriage, and the realization that the dream is already happening.

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## Transcript

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