# Trump vs. the Pope

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-oath-and-the-office-7209235/trump-vs-the-pope
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-oath-and-the-office-7209235/trump-vs-the-pope.md
Podcast: [The Oath and The Office](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-oath-and-the-office-7209235)
Published: 2026-04-16T09:30:07+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/trump-vs-the-pope--71353293
Audio file: https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/71353293/041626_tonto_no_aclu.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-oath-and-the-office-7209235/episodes/trump-vs-the-pope
Duration seconds: 2692

## Resource

Trump says the pope should stay out of politics. But when Trump posts himself as Jesus, attacks independent moral authority, and demands loyalty from every institution, the real goal is not religious neutrality. It is control. In this episode of The Oath and The Office, Corey Brettschneider and John Fugelsang begin with Trump’s clash with the pope and what it reveals about the authoritarian impulse: not keeping religion out of politics, but bending religion to serve power. Then they turn to Hungary, where Viktor Orbán’s loss offers a real sign of hope. Even after gerrymandering and years of democratic erosion, autocrats can still be challenged and defeated. They also break down two more revealing stories: a judge throwing out Trump’s defamation suit over the Epstein birthday-card report, and the administration’s move to abandon civil-rights settlements protecting trans students. Taken together, these stories show the same pattern: attacks on truth, attacks on vulnerable people, and attacks on any institution unwilling to bend to raw power. This episode is about more than one controversy. It is about the larger authoritarian playbook — and why resistance still matters.

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## Transcript

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