# #77 John Dear in conversation with Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine: "The West Bank is a prison, Gaza is a concentration camp."

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-nonviolent-jesus-7144839/77-john-dear-in-conversation-with-zoughbi-zoughbi-of-bethlehem-palestine-the-west-bank-is-a-prison-gaza-is-a-concentration-camp.md
Podcast: [The Nonviolent Jesus](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-nonviolent-jesus-7144839)
Published: 2026-06-22T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.com/podcasts/the-nonviolent-jesus-podcast/2925647
Audio file: https://content.rss.com/episodes/307220/2925647/the-nonviolent-jesus-podcast/2026_06_18_17_37_08_643865e5-df71-4adc-8472-85d0e9b59d26.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2345

## Resource

Today I speak with one of the great peacemakers of our time, my friend Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine. Zoughbi is a lifelong Catholic Palestinian activist, organizer and teacher of Gospel nonviolence. Long ago he founded the Wi’am Center, the Palestinian Conflict Transformation Center in the center of Bethlehem. Wi'am is widely recognized as a place of nonviolent conflict resolution that helps Palestinians in the day to day struggle for justice and peace ( www.alaslah.org ) For the last few years, he has also served as the president of the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, which is the oldest peace group in the world ( www.ifor.org ). Whenever you think you are working too hard for justice and peace, remember Zoughbi! “This is the first time in history that Bethlehem and Jerusalem are separated, that you cannot travel between them,” he says . “We are living in reservations, separated from each other. Bethlehem is becoming a smaller reservation surrounded by 23 settlements and many outposts. The West Bank is a prison; Gaza is a concentration camp. Every day, we see more prisoners, houses being demolished, state violence, settler violence, environmental violence. The situation is moving from worse to the worst.” “I want my people to live their life and know their rights, to work for a culture of acceptance, to resolve conflict nonviolently. We are exposing the atrocities of the Occupation, and ask people to be in solidarity for us. We are all global citizens of a global world. I want all Christian brothers and sisters to walk in our shoes. Come and visit! Stop aiding and supporting Israel, its weapons, wars and occupation. "I don't want the Holy Land to become a museum without people.” When asked about the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, he…

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