# What If Saving the Planet Could Be Fun?

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-next-big-idea-743842/what-if-saving-the-planet-could-be-fun
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-next-big-idea-743842/what-if-saving-the-planet-could-be-fun.md
Podcast: [The Next Big Idea](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-next-big-idea-743842)
Published: 2026-07-09T09:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/YAP4650166366.mp3
Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/YAP4650166366.mp3
Processing state: not_requested
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-next-big-idea-743842/episodes/what-if-saving-the-planet-could-be-fun
Duration seconds: 3504

## Resource

Despite decades of urgency and alarm, progress on climate change has felt frustratingly slow. What if we've been going about it all wrong? Elizabeth Dunn and Jiaying "JZ" Zhao think there's a missing ingredient in the conversation: joy. In their new book, Leave the Lights On, Liz and JZ draw on psychology, behavioral science, and sustainability research to argue that the most effective climate solutions aren't rooted in guilt, fear, or self-denial. They're rooted in easy choices that also make your life better. Today on the show: why doom-and-gloom messaging backfires, what bacon dipped in maple syrup has to do with saving the planet, how buying more underwear might just protect our species, and why the choices that help most are also the ones that make us happier. *** Chapters: (00:00) Introduction  (02:23) Why Climate Fear Backfires (09:24) The Case for Making Meat a Treat (17:44) The BLT Climate Paradox (20:53) The Hidden Climate Cost of Your Bank Account (23:50) Fast Fashion, Slow Happiness (31:10) Why Driving Makes Us Unhappy (39:08) The Best Trips Are Closer Than You Think (45:24) The Science of Social Tipping Points (49:41) The Climate Power of a Single Vote About the Guests:  Elizabeth Dunn is a professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia and one of the world's leading researchers on happiness and well-being. Her work explores how people can use their time, money, and relationships to build more satisfying lives. Jiaying Zhao is a professor of psychology and the founder of the Behavioral Sustainability Lab at the University of British Columbia. Her research focuses on climate action, behavioral change, and the role of psychology in accelerating the transition to a more sustainable future. *** 🎥 The Next Big Idea is now on YouTube! Yo…

## Actions

- request_transcript: `POST https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-next-big-idea-743842/episodes/what-if-saving-the-planet-could-be-fun/transcription-requests` — Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode.
- read_markdown: `GET https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-next-big-idea-743842/what-if-saving-the-planet-could-be-fun.md` — Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource.

A page view does not enqueue transcription. Agents should invoke `request_transcript` explicitly when they need this episode processed.

## Transcript

Full transcripts are not published on public pages unless there is a clear rights basis.