# How to Unleash the Swarm

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-messy-city-podcast-6070040/how-to-unleash-the-swarm
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-messy-city-podcast-6070040/how-to-unleash-the-swarm.md
Podcast: [The Messy City Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-messy-city-podcast-6070040)
Published: 2025-11-11T14:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/p/adaptive-zoning
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/178502790/f6991772c17f965f8fc2b059accfdbdf.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-messy-city-podcast-6070040/episodes/how-to-unleash-the-swarm
Duration seconds: 4096

## Resource

Andrew Burleson asks us to think about, “what is the system that creates space for people to live?” Systems thinking may seem terribly wonky, and in reality, it is. But systems thinking gave us the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and a whole host of ideas that underpin western civilization. Systems thinking was behind the movement that created administrative city planning and zoning in the 19-teens and 20s. YOU might not be thinking about systems, but someone else is. So the question is, what kind of systems do we want and need, that produce the best outcomes for human beings? Andrew is a man of many hats, not the least of which is he’s the Board Chair for Strong Towns. Beyond that, he’s a terrific thinker in his own right, and writes a Substack called The Post-Suburban Future . This episode is an outgrowth of a post he wrote called, “Could we create land use rules that work better for everyone?” If the episode intrigues you, read the post, too. He goes into even more detail with images there. The main focus of our conversation is a notion I described a few years ago, which is we need to “unleash the swarm ” to solve our housing and development issues. Andrew does an exceptional job of describing the problem (all development now is discretionary and professionalized), and that our land use regulations essentially require stasis. Stasis sounds comforting to many, but it actually works against our intentions when practiced in reality. In this episode, we talk about how to de-professionalize housing, which is a phrase I really like, and how to drive incremental change by the context of a block or neighborhood. Andrew’s phrase that I love is, “the individual project is small, but the collective output is enormous.” As I reflected on that, it occurred to me that’s the e…

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## Transcript

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