# How outcomes measurement has changed the CMO-CFO relationship - with Nimmi Shah and Sameer Modha

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-media-leader-podcast-5773787/how-outcomes-measurement-has-changed-the-cmo-cfo-relationship-with-nimmi-shah-and-sameer-modha
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-media-leader-podcast-5773787/how-outcomes-measurement-has-changed-the-cmo-cfo-relationship-with-nimmi-shah-and-sameer-modha.md
Podcast: [The Media Leader Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-media-leader-podcast-5773787)
Published: 2026-05-11T04:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.art19.com/episodes/19d4ffbf-a93f-41d2-b99e-857799eec04d.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIg90cmFuc2NyaWJyBjoGRVQ%3D--952c5701c84ad333c69d5faa668f8177091704f0
Audio file: https://rss.art19.com/episodes/19d4ffbf-a93f-41d2-b99e-857799eec04d.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIg90cmFuc2NyaWJyBjoGRVQ%3D--952c5701c84ad333c69d5faa668f8177091704f0
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Duration seconds: 4596

## Resource

Is there a more important relationship in our industry than that between the CMO and the CFO? Given the macroeconomic environment – war, inflation, AI threatening to upend entire industries – how are the the interests of financial leaders changing as they relate to marketing? Nimmi Shah is a consultant finance director for the media, marketing and PR industries and has worked with major agency groups. Sameer Modha is the outcome measurement innovation lead at ITV, and one of the individuals spearheading the broadcasters’ in-development outcome measurement solution, Lantern. The duo join host Jack Benjamin to discuss how financial pressures are having downstream effects on media investment, why outcomes-driven measurement has emerged as the way forward in the boardroom, and how AI is leading to new opportunities and new conundrums for marketers. Is media still being spent on eyeballs? Or is it being spent on, as Modha puts it, "a receipt that says I got something that I can take to the CFO which will continue to justify my budget". Highlights: 1:34: How CFOs are navigating volatile macro pressures, and where the CMO fits 9:24: The move to outcomes measurement as a "recepit", and how it's benefitted tech platforms 23:58: Lantern, making TV show up in the nearer term, and the power of platform models 36:37: Are platforms marking their own outcomes homework? How auctions work, and why "the machine knows better than you". 46:48: Implications of the AI cost push: Is AI generating value? Will OpenAI compete with Google? 1:05:19: What happens if finance and media decisions become automated? Related articles: How Lantern will bring outcome measurement to TV — with Sameer Modha and Matt Hill How to make marketing indispensable to the CFO? Focus on incrementality Marketers must t…

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