# EP 70: Is Organizational Coaching Actually Working? AI, Capacity & the Truth About Coaching in Organizations

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-leading-below-the-surface-podcast-with-latonya-wilkins-6464259/ep-70-is-organizational-coaching-actually-working-ai-capacity-the-truth-about-coaching-in-organizations
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-leading-below-the-surface-podcast-with-latonya-wilkins-6464259/ep-70-is-organizational-coaching-actually-working-ai-capacity-the-truth-about-coaching-in-organizations.md
Podcast: [The Leading Below the Surface Podcast with LaTonya Wilkins](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-leading-below-the-surface-podcast-with-latonya-wilkins-6464259)
Published: 2026-07-16T13:28:16+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/leadingbelowthesurface/episodes/EP-70-Is-Organizational-Coaching-Actually-Working--AI--Capacity--the-Truth-About-Coaching-in-Organizations-e3m5k8v
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/e4da3074/podcast/play/122916575/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-6-16%2F428069030-44100-2-921b389242c19.mp3
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Duration seconds: 3112

## Resource

Why do companies hire a coach instead of fixing the real problem? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with Katherine Lord, MSW, LSW, Director of Organizational Member Experience at ICF Coaching in Organizations for a candid conversation about what coaching actually does and doesn't do, why “ROI” is the wrong lens for measuring its impact, and how organizations sometimes use coaching to avoid holding up the mirror to themselves. From the “barge in a canal” theory of organizational change to why an AI coach will never replace a human one, this episode goes below the surface of what coaching in companies really looks like. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Welcome & introducing Katherine Lord [04:29] Katherine's path from social work to coaching at ICF [08:06] “Therapy's backward, coaching's forward” [12:12] Return on Investment vs. Return on Expectation (ROE) [16:27] Why there's no clean ROI formula for coaching [20:28] The case for humans over widget, and over AI, as the investment [22:48] Organizational coaching is still coaching [24:53] Do orgs hire coaches to avoid systemic problems? [29:53] A real case study: burnout, silos, and a mirror the org wasn't ready for [31:31] Where AI and coaching actually intersect [35:09] AI as a “capacity builder” and not a magic pill [37:58] Tech backlash: why forcing AI adoption backfires [42:14] “We scale what we value” [43:25] Human-to-human connection vs. talking to Alexa [45:48] What should orgs look for when hiring a coach? [48:47] Debunking the myth that big companies only hire big coaching firms Associated Links 🔹 Katherine Lord: https://www.linkedin.com/in…

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## Transcript

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