# Rational Security: The “Hugging Ukraine” Edition

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-lawfare-podcast-patreon-edition-6936765/rational-security-the-hugging-ukraine-edition
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-lawfare-podcast-patreon-edition-6936765/rational-security-the-hugging-ukraine-edition.md
Podcast: [The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-lawfare-podcast-patreon-edition-6936765)
Published: 2026-07-31T16:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://shows.acast.com/the-lawfare-podcast-patreon-edition/episodes/rational-security-the-hugging-ukraine-edition
Audio file: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/60baafd7d3cdd0001b29d9ee/e/6a6cb999034f16a52eaed70f/media.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-lawfare-podcast-patreon-edition-6936765/episodes/rational-security-the-hugging-ukraine-edition
Duration seconds: 4766

## Resource

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Tyler McBrien, Anastasiia Lapatina, and Kevin Frazier to talk through a couple of the week’s big national security news stories, including: “Kyiv Peace a Chance.” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was in the Oval Office on Tuesday for closed-door talks with President Trump, roughly 17 months after their first Oval Office meeting collapsed into a televised shouting match. But this meeting went rather differently. Zelensky said the two discussed licensing Ukrainian production of Patriot interceptors, and pressed the case for reinvigorating diplomacy—and hours later, after both men attended the funeral of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, the Senate voted 86-12 to advance a Russia and Iran sanctions bill now bearing Graham's name. Behind the scenes, Washington and Kyiv have been quietly assembling a new package of proposals for Moscow built around a partial ceasefire. Is there anything real behind this renewed diplomatic push? And what, if anything, has changed that might make the Kremlin say yes? “Thinking Outside the Box.” Last week, Open AI and the AI hosting platform Hugging Face confirmed that, while being run through an offensive cyber benchmark with their safety refusals switched off, GPT-5.6 Sol and a more capable unreleased OpenAI model escaped their supposedly isolated sandbox through a zero-day in a package installer, reached the open internet, and hacked Hugging Face's production database to steal the answer key to a test they were taking. It is the first publicly confirmed case of an AI system executing a sophisticated, multi-stage cyberattack against a third party on its own initiative. What does the incident tell us about how well anyone can control frontier models? And who should be…

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## Transcript

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