# What It Takes for Women to Break Through in Litigation

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-jabot-1141212/what-it-takes-for-women-to-break-through-in-litigation
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-jabot-1141212/what-it-takes-for-women-to-break-through-in-litigation.md
Podcast: [The Jabot](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-jabot-1141212)
Published: 2026-07-13T09:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://atlthejabot.libsyn.com/what-it-takes-for-women-to-break-through-in-litigation
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/atlthejabot/JAB222_mixdown.mp3?dest-id=655403
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-jabot-1141212/episodes/what-it-takes-for-women-to-break-through-in-litigation
Duration seconds: 1355

## Resource

Summary Kelly Grigsby Jones and Laurie Avery, litigation partners at Perez Morris, sit down with Kathryn Rubino to talk about building a career in trial work. They trace their paths into law, the gap between courtroom TV and courtroom reality, and how they've made an unpredictable schedule sustainable over decades of practice. The conversation turns practical: how young lawyers can get their first real trial experience, what mentors actually look for in an associate, and how to handle a case when the best exhibit goes missing mid-trial. Both partners share candid advice for women navigating litigation, plus the one habit they say matters more than talent: preparation. Key Takeaways Early trial experience often comes from smaller markets or litigation-heavy firms willing to hand associates low-stakes cases to learn on. Being proactive, not waiting to be asked, is what separates associates who get pulled into bigger opportunities from those who don't. Preparation is the one thing a lawyer can fully control, even when the outcome, a missing exhibit or a directed verdict, isn't. Good mentors highlight a mentee's strengths and give honest, respectful redirection when trial work isn't the right fit. A sustainable trial career means accepting an uneven schedule: early some days, late into the night on others. Links and Resources Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/ The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/ Perez Morris: https://www.perezmorris.com/ Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com Keywords women in litigation, trial lawyers, legal career advice, Perez Morris, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, women in law, litigation partners, trial experience, first chair, second chair, mentorship in law, law firm associates, courtroom preparation, women trial…

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