# REVISIT: Finding Hope in Solidarity with Heather McGhee

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-integrated-schools-podcast-520165/revisit-finding-hope-in-solidarity-with-heather-mcghee
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-integrated-schools-podcast-520165/revisit-finding-hope-in-solidarity-with-heather-mcghee.md
Podcast: [The Integrated Schools Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-integrated-schools-podcast-520165)
Published: 2026-04-22T08:00:37+00:00
Episode link: https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e14-revisit-finding-hope-in-solidarity-with-heather-mcghee/
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio3.redcircle.com/episodes/53eb16da-f8b7-471d-8e23-6c99bea65e0c/stream.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-integrated-schools-podcast-520165/episodes/revisit-finding-hope-in-solidarity-with-heather-mcghee
Duration seconds: 3654

## Resource

We’re going back to the archives today to revisit a conversation with Heather McGhee. In February of 2021, Heather McGhee’s book, The Sum of Us came out. With a focus on the ways in which racism harms everyone, and the potential good that can come from cross-racial coalitions, the book was exciting to us. When we realized that Integrated Schools was featured prominently in the chapter about education, we were blown away. The book is based around three main concepts. The first is the “zero-sum lie of racial hierarchy”, or the idea that progress for people of color necessarily has to come at White folks’ expense. The second is the idea of the “drained pool,” the disinvestment by White people in public goods simply because they have to share them with people of color. And finally, the “solidarity dividend,” the idea of gains that we can unlock, but only when we come together across lines of difference. This last idea, the most hopeful, inspired Ms. McGhee to go back on the road and make a podcast documenting examples of the Solidarity Dividend in action. She joins us to discuss the podcast, what it means to be a good ally, the power of relationships in sustaining movements, and what role the Integrated Schools community should play in participating in the current, cross-racial movement for public education. LINKS Ms. McGhee’s first appearance on our show - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ The Sum of Us Podcast - https://podnews.net/podcast/ia1wj/listen The Sum of Us Book - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780525509585 James Haslem from HEAL Together - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s7e16-anti-crt-book-bans-and-a-call-to-heal/ Ms. McGhee and Victor Ray’s Op-Ed in the NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/opinion/us-school-citizenship.html Calif…

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