# Eli Dourado - Avoiding Societal Collapse, Complexity, and the Path to Abundance

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-hope-axis-by-anna-g-t-7076854/eli-dourado-avoiding-societal-collapse-complexity-and-the-path-to-abundance
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-hope-axis-by-anna-g-t-7076854/eli-dourado-avoiding-societal-collapse-complexity-and-the-path-to-abundance.md
Podcast: [The Hope Axis by Anna Gát](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-hope-axis-by-anna-g-t-7076854)
Published: 2026-02-18T00:17:35+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/anna-gat/episodes/Eli-Dourado---Avoiding-Societal-Collapse--Complexity--and-the-Path-to-Abundance-e3f847j
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/f8e5b408/podcast/play/115658419/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-1-18%2Fa1b70957-7575-6633-9d12-d2fd1826e060.mp3
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Duration seconds: 3978

## Resource

This week on The Hope Axis, I’m happy to welcome back Eli Dourado. Eli has joined us before in Interintellect salons, and now he’s on the podcast to revisit some of the ideas we talked about in the past. He previously worked at the Abundance Institute and is now the Head of Strategic Investments at Astra. We talk about abundance, progress, and what it takes to help the world flourish a little bit more. Hope you enjoy. For the full transcript of our conversation, click here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mO1maYYI0KzoR-lrjkhB9w9IZbT1XZFc/view?usp=sharing Important Links: X (Twitter) – https://x.com/elidourado Astera – https://astera.org/team/eli-dourado/ . LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/elidourado Substack – https://www.elidourado.com/ Show Notes: (00:00) Guest Introduction (01:51) Why Joseph Tainter (09:45) The Great Stagnation (15:13) Imagining Someone in 1866 (16:48) Hungary (22:24) The Fragility of Economic Growth (26:02) Complexity (29:56) Chernobyl as The Cause of USSR's Collapse (32:32) The Uneven Stagnation, Explaining Mismanagement (39:16) The Nature of The Elites (43:05) Staving off the Collapse, History and the Future (50:05) Diminishing Marginal Returns (55:24) How to Rebuild Faith in the System Books, Essays & References Mentioned: The Collapse of Complex Societies — Joseph Tainter The Great Stagnation — Tyler Cowen End Times — Peter Turchin Collapse — Jared Diamond Cliodynamics Total Factor Productivity The Roman Empire The Soviet Union Industrial Revolution Diminishing marginal returns Resource subsidies Technological progress Nihilism in stagnating societies Expansion into the solar system Complexity budget

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## Transcript

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