# Mark Leonard on Whether Europe is Doomed

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-good-fight-1115114/mark-leonard-on-whether-europe-is-doomed
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-good-fight-1115114/mark-leonard-on-whether-europe-is-doomed.md
Podcast: [The Good Fight](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-good-fight-1115114)
Published: 2026-06-24T08:47:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/traffic.megaphone.fm/TGF5840832872.mp3
Audio file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/traffic.megaphone.fm/TGF5840832872.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-good-fight-1115114/episodes/mark-leonard-on-whether-europe-is-doomed
Duration seconds: 2750

## Resource

Yascha Mounk and Mark Leonard discuss how the West can defend itself without America. Mark Leonard is co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, the first pan-European think–tank. His latest book is Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mark Leonard discuss why Europe is behind, the global impact of China’s rise, and whether Europe can learn to defend itself without the United States. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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## Transcript

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