# Stop Pushing. Start Pulling.

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-expert-method-7602465/stop-pushing-start-pulling
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-expert-method-7602465/stop-pushing-start-pulling.md
Podcast: [The Expert Method](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-expert-method-7602465)
Published: 2026-04-07T15:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://api.riverside.com/hosting-analytics/media/515ac5f704aa367dcb18ce7f2215d7092ac8fc1b571c2c26da14d1b4aaeed67d/eyJlcGlzb2RlSWQiOiJiOTA4M2I3NC1mYzU1LTQ2YjItYWEyOS1iODM3YTM4NzYzN2IiLCJwb2RjYXN0SWQiOiIyYjliZmMzNS00MGExLTQ1OGYtYWE5Yi0wODM5MTdlYzIxY2EiLCJhY2NvdW50SWQiOiI2OTBkMmM4Mjg4NDBjYjZjZTY4YzJkZjQiLCJwYXRoIjoibWVkaWEvY2xpcHMvNjlkMGQwYzdkNjFhYTQ5YTcyYjRlNGRhL2lhbnMtc3R1ZGlvLU80a25BLWNvbXBvc2VyLTIwMjYtNC00X18xMC01MC0xNS5tcDMifQ==.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-expert-method-7602465/episodes/stop-pushing-start-pulling
Duration seconds: 1435

## Resource

Check out the Program Execution System Toolkit: https://implementgpts.com/pestoolkit =============== In this episode of Systems of Scale, Ian Gatzke sits down with Bob Burg to unpack what real influence actually is and why it has less to do with pressure and more to do with trust. Bob explains the difference between persuasion and manipulation, why listening is central to understanding value, and how sales has shifted as buyers have become more informed and more skeptical of outdated tactics. The conversation also explores why genuine concern for the other person is not just ethical, but commercially effective. If you care about selling in a way that builds trust, creates better outcomes, and leads to stronger long-term relationships, this episode will give you a clear framework for thinking about influence differently. =============== Bob’s Links: - Website: https://burg.com/ - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobburg - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realbobburg/ - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/burgbob/ Bob’s Books: https://burg.com/books/ =============== - My LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-gatzke/ - Schedule Free Blueprinting Call: https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/implement-ai-blueprinting =============== Highlights: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Influence Defined 03:11 - Creating Pull 05:29 - Persuasion Vs Manipulation 09:16 - Changing Sales 14:29 - Why Listening 18:07 - Sales Questions 21:17 - Walking Away 23:02 - Billboard Question 24:37 - Living Practically

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## Transcript

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