# #89 - Against Animal Domination | John Sanbonmatsu

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-ethical-frontier-6723630/89-against-animal-domination-john-sanbonmatsu
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-ethical-frontier-6723630/89-against-animal-domination-john-sanbonmatsu.md
Podcast: [The Ethical Frontier](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-ethical-frontier-6723630)
Published: 2026-03-16T00:09:56+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theethicalfrontier/episodes/89---Against-Animal-Domination--John-Sanbonmatsu-e3gg93h
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/e94a01fc/podcast/play/116974129/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-2-16%2F420084408-44100-2-0675f16788643.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-ethical-frontier-6723630/episodes/89-against-animal-domination-john-sanbonmatsu
Duration seconds: 3892

## Resource

You can support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chenphilosophy John Sanbonmatsu is Professor of Philosophy at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts. Website: https://www.johnsanbonmatsu.com/ Book: https://nyupress.org/9781479825967/the-omnivores-deception/ Summary:In this interview, we discuss three deceptions surrounding our relationship to animals. The first one is that we believe it's morally okay to dominate animals because it's natural. The second deception is that we can treat animals morally by utilizing small-scale farms instead of factory farms. And the third deception is self-deception. Specifically, we lie to ourselves and intentionally turn a blind eye to the suffering of animals so we don't have to confront the fact that eating meat is wrong.

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## Transcript

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