# How to Lead When Certainty is Gone with Brent Sleasman

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-coach-approach-ministries-podcast-458731/how-to-lead-when-certainty-is-gone-with-brent-sleasman
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-coach-approach-ministries-podcast-458731/how-to-lead-when-certainty-is-gone-with-brent-sleasman.md
Podcast: [The Coach Approach Ministries Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-coach-approach-ministries-podcast-458731)
Published: 2026-02-12T07:33:00+00:00
Episode link: https://coachapproach.libsyn.com/how-to-lead-when-certainty-is-gone-with-brent-sleasman
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/coachapproach/CAP_504_Organizations_are_Imploding_with_Brent_Sleasman.mp3?dest-id=313755
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-coach-approach-ministries-podcast-458731/episodes/how-to-lead-when-certainty-is-gone-with-brent-sleasman
Duration seconds: 1968

## Resource

Brian Miller (Coach Approach Ministries) sits down with Brent Sleasman (Winebrenner Seminary) to unpack a hard reality: important kingdom-focused organizations are disappearing—not because the mission isn't needed, but because leaders fail to see the bigger picture and adapt to a changed world. They explore how "little-kingdom thinking," nostalgia-driven decision-making, and fear of loss keep leaders stuck. The conversation lands on two mindset shifts—moving from deconstruction to construction, and from craving certainty to practicing curiosity—plus a practical lifeline: partnership and collaboration before it's too late. Big ideas & key takeaways 1) "Important organizations" can fail while the Kingdom doesn't Brent defines "important" as organizations advancing Jesus' kingdom mission—raising up and equipping workers. Some fail by closing completely ; others "survive" by being absorbed and losing autonomy and original mission. 2) The "bigger perspective" starts with Kingdom clarity Brent's core framework: One King One Kingdom One Kingdom mission When organizations obsess over their own mission/brand distinctiveness and neglect the larger kingdom mission, they drift into "my little kingdom" thinking—and conflict with reality eventually wins. 3) Nonprofits get a weird superpower: they can ignore financial reality longer Because they're not serving shareholders or chasing profit, they can keep doing what "worked for my grandparents"… right up until the day they can't pay staff. 4) Leaders are loss-averse, so change feels like dying Brent names the psychology: we overweight what we might lose versus what we might gain. So even small workflow changes (a new system, new dashboard, a meeting rhythm) can get treated like a spiritual crisis. 5) Two mindset shifts for a VUCA wor…

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## Transcript

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