# Insurance, Buffers, and the Permanence Trust - with Natalia Dorfman

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-cdr-policy-scoop-7168165/insurance-buffers-and-the-permanence-trust-with-natalia-dorfman
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-cdr-policy-scoop-7168165/insurance-buffers-and-the-permanence-trust-with-natalia-dorfman.md
Podcast: [The CDR Policy Scoop](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-cdr-policy-scoop-7168165)
Published: 2026-05-03T23:01:00+00:00
Episode link: https://shows.acast.com/the-cdr-policy-scoop/episodes/fixing-permanence-insurance-and-the-permanence-trust-with-na
Audio file: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/678198d8ec40818e0b7a9fbb/e/69f62a6ce11f5963aba5495d/media.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-cdr-policy-scoop-7168165/episodes/insurance-buffers-and-the-permanence-trust-with-natalia-dorfman
Duration seconds: 1810

## Resource

Who should hold permanence liability, for how long, and how?  In this episode of the CDR Policy Scoop, Eve and Sebastian speak with Natalia Dorfman has spent the last four years building Kita into the carbon market's leading insurance specialist. She make the case that the market is finally ready to move beyond buffer pools, and that the tools to do it already exist. Natalia draws a sharp distinction between short and long-term liability windows, explains why buffers were a necessary starting point but were never designed for perpetuity, and lays out why standards don't actually want to be holding that risk. That sets up the main event: the Permanence Trust , a feasibility study led by the American Forest Foundation with Kita as a supporting partner. The idea is straightforward in principle, an endowment-style fund that grows to cover reversals over time. But the questions around standards buy-in, cost structure, and what "replacement" actually means for capital markets are anything but. Natalia takes them head on. A report is due around June and a pilot to follow. This one is worth watching. Show notes: Eve Tamme: LinkedIn and Website Sebastian Manhart: LinkedIn and Website Natalia Dorfman: LinkedIn Kita: Website American Forest Foundation: Website Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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## Transcript

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