# CNLP 815 | The Death of Secularism: Matt Chandler on Why Pastors Shouldn't Wear Capes  and When the Church Is All Wood and No Fire

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Podcast: [The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-carey-nieuwhof-leadership-podcast-2463234)
Published: 2026-07-07T09:05:00+00:00
Episode link: https://careynieuwhof.libsyn.com/cnlp-815-the-death-of-secularism-matt-chandler-on-why-pastors-shouldnt-wear-capes-and-when-the-church-is-all-wood-and-no-fire
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/careynieuwhof/CNLP_815_With_Matt-Chandler.mp3?dest-id=125406
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Duration seconds: 3671

## Resource

Matt Chandler doesn't pull punches. The lead pastor of The Village Church joins Carey to talk about why wearing a cape doesn't help anyone, the death of secularism, and why the church is all wood and no fire. Matt also opens up about the moment he almost quit, what Spurgeon taught him about suffering, and why he stopped neglecting the Holy Spirit. 🔗 Show Notes 🤖 AI and the Future Church - NEW BOOK! 🗣️ Preaching Cheat Sheet 🧠 The Art of Leadership Academy 🎥 Watch on YouTube Follow @careynieuwhof ❗️Connect with other podcast listeners about each episode of my podcast, including me. You'll get exclusive insights by asking questions, sharing insights, and learning how others are applying the content in real life. Join for free: https://careynieuwhof.com/shownotes ART OF PREACHING If you're still writing your sermon Saturday night and replaying the mistakes Monday morning, The Art of Preaching is for you. It's a step-by-step course that's helped over 3,500 preachers write and deliver messages that land. Until July 15th, grab it for fifty dollars off at theartofpreachingcourse.com . BELAY BELAY gives you U.S.-based assistant or accounting support tailored to your church so you can lead instead of manage. Text CAREY to 55123 for a free copy of The Freedom Framework. RIGHT NOW MEDIA God's Kids from Right Now Media is a brand-new elementary and preschool curriculum launching this fall. Head to RightNowKids.org/access to schedule a free demo.

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