# JVL and Robert Kagan: Marco and Miller Go Full Fascist

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-bulwark-4018927/jvl-and-robert-kagan-marco-and-miller-go-full-fascist
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-bulwark-4018927/jvl-and-robert-kagan-marco-and-miller-go-full-fascist.md
Podcast: [The Bulwark](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-bulwark-4018927)
Published: 2026-07-29T21:06:44+00:00
Episode link: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/jonathan-v-last-and-robert-kagan
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/209022390/e0c07fa608a4e3fb66f93981e8d94966.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/the-bulwark-4018927/episodes/jvl-and-robert-kagan-marco-and-miller-go-full-fascist
Duration seconds: 710

## Resource

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.thebulwark.com Tim’s back next week but in the meantime enjoy this ad-free preview of The Bulwark Podcast — today with JVL and Robert Kagan. Upgrade to watch the full show—ad free—and join the Bulwark community in the comments. Ride with us. At a little-noticed conference on political violence a couple of weeks ago, Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller employed the dehumanizing rhetoric of the Soviets and Nazi mastermind Joseph Goebbels to attack the left. And while they might want us to think they were just talking about the DSA, it sure seems that they meant Democrats generally—including those who might be legitimately protesting Trump's efforts to try to steal an election. Plus: Iran is not acting like it fears the United States, Lindsey Graham probably did more harm than good, and the Fauci drama is the latest example of the MAGA double standard about telling the truth. Bob Kagan joins guest host JVL. Show notes: * JVL's 'Triad' on Trump's best option on Iran * Bob's articles at The Atlantic As always: Watch, listen, hit the like button or leave a comment . We want to hear from you. Ad-free editions of The Bulwark Podcast are available exclusively for Bulwark+ members. The Bulwark Podcast with Tim Miller is available wherever you get podcasts and on YouTube. New shows drop each weekday afternoon. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐ wherever you listen. Add The Bulwark Podcast to your player of choice, here .

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## Transcript

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