# S6 E37 | Dr. Joseph R. Dodson and Mattie Mae Motl | Conquerors, Not Captives: Rethinking Romans 7

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Podcast: [The Alabaster Jar](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-alabaster-jar-6611285)
Published: 2026-03-16T08:00:02+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/s6-e37-dr-joseph-r-dodson-and-mattie-mae-motl-conquerors-not-captives-rethinking-romans-7--70653469
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Duration seconds: 2355

## Resource

In this conversation, Dr. Lynn Cohick is joined by Dr. Joseph R. Dodson and his daughter Maddie Mae Motl about their book, Conquerors, Not Captives: Reframing Romans 7 for the Christian Life . They challenge the popular view that the “I” in Romans 7 is Paul describing the normal Christian struggle with sin and instead argue that Paul is using a rhetorical persona, not speaking autobiographically. Drawing on the wider context of Romans 5–8, church history (from Origen and Augustine to Luther and Calvin), and an apocalyptic/cosmological view of sin and death, they present Romans 7 as depicting life under sin and the law rather than Spirit-empowered Christian existence. Resources Mentioned: The Visual Museum of Women in Christianity Conquerors Not Captives: Reframing Romans 7 for the Christian Life by Dr. Joseph R. Dodson and Mattie Mae Motl Paul and the Giants of Philosophy: Reading the Apostle in Greco-Roman Context by Dr. Joseph R. Dodson and Dr. David E. Briones The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee Episode Sponsor: The Alabaster Jar is brought to you by The Center for Women in Leadership, a newly formed 501©3 nonprofit organization whose purpose is to equip women in a context that is biblically rooted, theologically robust, and ethnically diverse to thrive as leaders in the academy, the marketplace, and the Church. Follow them on Instagram @leadershipwithoutapology .

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