# The Lawyer Fighting Government Surveillance for 30 Years (With EFF's Cindy Cohn)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-404-media-podcast-6582713/the-lawyer-fighting-government-surveillance-for-30-years-with-eff-s-cindy-cohn
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-404-media-podcast-6582713/the-lawyer-fighting-government-surveillance-for-30-years-with-eff-s-cindy-cohn.md
Podcast: [The 404 Media Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/the-404-media-podcast-6582713)
Published: 2026-04-06T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://pdst.fm/e/clrtpod.com/m/pscrb.fm/rss/p/arttrk.com/p/2D5E6/mgln.ai/e/1246/tracking.swap.fm/track/AoSMVIl7piQbthzJoBqJ/traffic.megaphone.fm/TBIEA6285366104.mp3?updated=1775255660
Audio file: https://pdst.fm/e/clrtpod.com/m/pscrb.fm/rss/p/arttrk.com/p/2D5E6/mgln.ai/e/1246/tracking.swap.fm/track/AoSMVIl7piQbthzJoBqJ/traffic.megaphone.fm/TBIEA6285366104.mp3?updated=1775255660
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Duration seconds: 3292

## Resource

This week Jason brings you an interview he did with The Electronic Frontier Foundation’s executive director Cindy Cohn, who recently announced she would be stepping down from the legendary digital rights nonprofit after decades of service. Cindy's new book “Privacy’s Defender,” is a memoir of her work to protect Americans’ privacy and fight government surveillance.Privacy’s Defender weaves Cindy’s life story through three incredibly important court cases. Rather than being a dry recounting of three complicated and technical cases, Cindy recounts her strategies in each case, the trials and tribulations she was going through during each period, and the stakes of each case. A quick backgrounder — the cases are Bernstein vs Department of Justice, decided in 1996, which established code and encryption as protected speech under the first amendment, a lasting decision that became critical in Apple’s lawsuit against the FBI in the aftermath of the San Bernardino shooting. It also follows EFF’s lawsuit against AT&T for building a secret backdoor in its internet data centers that gave data to the NSA for warrantless surveillance against American citizens, a case that was built in part around testimony and documents shared by Mark Klein, who showed schematics and design documents for secret surveillance rooms in AT&T’s offices. And finally it follows the Alphabet Cases, which were lawsuits against FBI gag orders for national security letters, which are secret demands for customer information that came with gag orders against internet companies that prevented them from disclosing the fact that the FBI approached them for information. Those cases concerned both Cloudflare and a telecom company called CREDO, and went on for many years. Our interview with Cindy shows that the…

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