# Zen and Socrates. Jun 21, 1987

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/zen-and-socrates-jun-21-1987
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/zen-and-socrates-jun-21-1987.md
Podcast: [Talks by Zen Roshi, Lola McDowell Lee](https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598)
Published: 2025-10-20T19:01:34+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.com/podcasts/ing-publishing/2276491
Audio file: https://content.rss.com/episodes/214545/2276491/ing-publishing/2025_10_17_17_16_13_6016f198-ddd7-419c-abcd-368660515b20.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/episodes/zen-and-socrates-jun-21-1987
Duration seconds: 3514

## Resource

Zen Roshi, Lola McDowell Lee, argues that most people waste their lives playing superficial games and are deceived by their own minds. They fail to engage in the urgent, life and death work of knowing themselves. The pursuit of money, power, prestige, and reputation are hollow endeavors, like waves on an ocean. Lola draws parallels between Zen practice and the Socratic method. Many of us meditate for a short period only to ignore one’s inner awareness for the other 23 hours of the day. Lola describes Greek philosopher Socrates as a figure who masterfully employed a method of inquiry similar to that of Zen. Socratic questioning, like the Koan, was a tool to penetrate the world of appearances and challenge ingrained opinions. This method, like Zen, is not about adding new beliefs but about drawing out the truth that is already within. Central to both the Socrates and Zen is in admitting ignorance. Plato depicted Socrates as a man whose wisdom lay in recognizing his own ignorance. Lola parallels this with the Zen master Bodhidharma, who, when asked by an emperor who he was, famously replied, "I don't know". This "unknowing" is a powerful spiritual state that moves beyond concepts, opening a space for true, transformative knowing to emerge. Ideas by themselves, even great spiritual ideas, do not raise the level of a human life. Without action by us, ideas have no real transforming power. Jun 21, 1987

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## Transcript

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