# The Lesson of True Listening. June 15, 1986

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/the-lesson-of-true-listening-june-15-1986
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/the-lesson-of-true-listening-june-15-1986.md
Podcast: [Talks by Zen Roshi, Lola McDowell Lee](https://stenobird.com/podcast/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598)
Published: 2026-04-01T01:35:17+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.com/podcasts/ing-publishing/2628992
Audio file: https://content.rss.com/episodes/214545/2628992/ing-publishing/2026_03_14_23_42_49_cede9307-f56e-4e37-8448-a15a77ebc930.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/talks-by-zen-roshi-lola-mcdowell-lee-6423598/episodes/the-lesson-of-true-listening-june-15-1986
Duration seconds: 3450

## Resource

Zen Roshi, Lola McDowell Lee, explores the difference between merely seeking reality and actually experiencing it through the practice of true listening. Ancient Zen master, Tokai, is abruptly awakened from a nap by a frantic monk shouting about a fire under the kitchen floor. Rather than panicking or leaping into action regarding a future threat, Tokai requests that the monk wake him only when the fire reaches the passageway, instantly returning to sleep. People often miss this present reality because their minds are busy searching for preconceived concepts of the Buddha or God. The ultimate truth is already at our door. The vital difference between hearing and listening. Our internal voice acts like a thick fog, constantly evaluating, agreeing, or disagreeing with our surroundings. True listening is hearing with awareness, requiring us to drop our mental commentary and simply witness phenomena without the need to say yes or no. The attainable and the unattainable. The attainable represents the dualistic world of objects, ideas, ego, and physical forms—things we can mentally grasp and call our own. When we attain something, we form an attachment to it. The unattainable represents the non-dualistic, transcendent truth that lies within and behind the phenomenal world. The unattainable cannot be possessed or grasped. It can only be realized by abandoning the dualitt of subject and object, and resting in the middle way. A barrier to accessing the unattainable is our conditioning. Our deepest beliefs regarding what is right and wrong are not objective truths, but rather accidental byproducts of our geographic, cultural, and familial upbringing. Beneath the rose of our supposedly logical and righteous beliefs lies the hidden thorn of personal desire for an immortal soul tha…

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