# How China Steals America’s Secrets | David Shedd & Andrew Badger

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/secrets-and-spies-podcast-espionage-global-issues-current-affairs-609504/s10-ep35-how-china-steals-america-s-secrets-with-david-shedd-andrew-badger
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/secrets-and-spies-podcast-espionage-global-issues-current-affairs-609504/s10-ep35-how-china-steals-america-s-secrets-with-david-shedd-andrew-badger.md
Podcast: [Secrets and Spies Podcast: Espionage | Global Issues | Current Affairs](https://stenobird.com/podcast/secrets-and-spies-podcast-espionage-global-issues-current-affairs-609504)
Published: 2026-03-14T08:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://bleav.com/shows/secrets-and-spies-podcast-espionage-global-issues-current-affairs/episodes/s10-ep35-how-china-steals-americas-secrets-with-david-shedd-andrew-badger/
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/1385/injector.simplecastaudio.com/50fe0eb3-5634-4207-8086-ad3ca4631993/episodes/989cd28f-8847-4eaf-bd82-965fb7d37ce1/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=50fe0eb3-5634-4207-8086-ad3ca4631993&awEpisodeId=989cd28f-8847-4eaf-bd82-965fb7d37ce1&feed=cLTfHjFw
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Duration seconds: 3650

## Resource

David Shedd served as acting director of the Defense Intelligence Agency; Andrew Badger is a former DIA case officer now teaching state-sponsored espionage at Oxford. Together they've written The Great Heist: China's Epic Campaign to Steal America's Secrets. Matt talks with them about how the Ministry of State Security evolved from a backwater service into what they argue is the world's most powerful intelligence agency; how Beijing replaced Cold War recruitment tradecraft with guanxi-based social obligation and what the authors call "crowd-sourced espionage"; how Made in China 2025 functioned as a national collection priority list driving theft across defense, tech, and critical infrastructure; and why Volt and Salt Typhoon represent not an espionage story but pre-positioning for war—with kill switches already embedded in America's power grid and telecommunications backbone.

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## Transcript

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