# From Desk-Pounding to Harmony — How the Game of Go Transformed a Violent Product Owner, and Why Every Employee Should Think Like an Owner | Peter Merel

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/scrum-master-toolbox-podcast-agile-storytelling-from-the-trenches-445588/from-desk-pounding-to-harmony-how-the-game-of-go-transformed-a-violent-product-owner-and-why-every-employee-should-think-like-an-owner-peter-merel
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/scrum-master-toolbox-podcast-agile-storytelling-from-the-trenches-445588/from-desk-pounding-to-harmony-how-the-game-of-go-transformed-a-violent-product-owner-and-why-every-employee-should-think-like-an-owner-peter-merel.md
Podcast: [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches](https://stenobird.com/podcast/scrum-master-toolbox-podcast-agile-storytelling-from-the-trenches-445588)
Published: 2026-05-08T10:05:00+00:00
Episode link: https://scrummastertoolbox.libsyn.com/from-desk-pounding-to-harmony-how-the-game-of-go-transformed-a-violent-product-owner-and-why-every-employee-should-think-like-an-owner-peter-merel
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/scrummastertoolbox/20260508_Peter_Merel_F.mp3?dest-id=246429
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Duration seconds: 1117

## Resource

Peter Merel: From Desk-Pounding to Harmony — How the Game of Go Transformed a Violent Product Owner, and Why Every Employee Should Think Like an Owner In this episode, we refer to The Agile Way by Peter Merel and The Great Game of Business by Jack Stack. The Great Product Owner: The Real Estate Visionary Who Built Channels of Learning Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes . "When a product owner brings an attitude of learning together, it doesn't just create psychological safety — it creates an active experimental mindset and a network of trust relationships that support each other in the learning process." - Peter Merel The best product owner Peter has worked with is Ben White, one of three brothers and partners in Ray White — Australia's largest property management business, started by Ben's great-grandfather. Ben had a vision for transforming how property management works across the entire Australian industry. To realize this vision, he tried to bring an app to market — and failed. Not once, but twice, before succeeding on the third attempt. What made Ben exceptional wasn't his persistence alone, but that each failure became an opportunity to learn how to approach the problem differently. The product he finally brought to market was informed by all of that learning. Ben's real genius, Peter explains, is his ability to establish channels of learning — trust relationships that flow not just through the technical team, but throughout the entire business and back into product development. Without those trust relationships, psychological safety alone isn't enough. Peter also emphasizes that the product owner should be a servant lea…

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