# 'Stick and Jab' (In Defense of Climate Change - Episode 2)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/science-from-the-fringe-7022876/stick-and-jab-in-defense-of-climate-change-episode-2
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/science-from-the-fringe-7022876/stick-and-jab-in-defense-of-climate-change-episode-2.md
Podcast: [Science From the Fringe](https://stenobird.com/podcast/science-from-the-fringe-7022876)
Published: 2026-03-31T21:01:10+00:00
Episode link: https://sciencefromthefringe.substack.com/p/stick-and-jab-in-defense-of-climate
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/192771071/7d64c04c98b65c6127faccb7a5f35c7d.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/science-from-the-fringe-7022876/episodes/stick-and-jab-in-defense-of-climate-change-episode-2
Duration seconds: 2165

## Resource

In the second episode of In Defense of Climate Change , Bryce Nickels speaks with climate policy scholar Roger Pielke Jr. about his recent review of Science Under Siege (SUS) , a book by Michael Mann and Peter Hotez arguing that an “anti-science movement” threatens society. Roger argues that SUS is less a serious analysis than a partisan manifesto—one that treats political disagreement, especially from Republicans, as a form of scientific heresy. A central theme is the book’s use of terms like “anti-science cabal” and “anti-science ecosystem.” He contends that these categories are vague and elastic, functioning less as analytic concepts than as labels for people the authors oppose. Rather than clarifying how science is distorted in public life, he suggests, the book collapses disagreement into moral warfare. The episode also explores the broader politicization of science. Roger argues that parts of the scientific community have grown too comfortable embracing openly partisan narratives, thereby risking science’s credibility as a public enterprise meant to serve everyone—not just one political faction. At the same time, he criticizes heavy-handed political attacks on scientific institutions, arguing that restoring trust will require greater openness, pluralism, and tolerance for disagreement. (recorded March 31, 2026) Get full access to Science From the Fringe at sciencefromthefringe.substack.com/subscribe

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## Transcript

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