# Do No Harm (In Defense of Virology - Episode 3)

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/science-from-the-fringe-7022876/do-no-harm-in-defense-of-virology-episode-3.md
Podcast: [Science From the Fringe](https://stenobird.com/podcast/science-from-the-fringe-7022876)
Published: 2025-10-31T13:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://sciencefromthefringe.substack.com/p/in-defense-of-virology-featuring-c7a
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/177435881/3701a3f2a26ed18d11492c90980bf45f.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/science-from-the-fringe-7022876/episodes/do-no-harm-in-defense-of-virology-episode-3
Duration seconds: 2725

## Resource

In the third episode of In Defense of Virology , Rutgers Professor and Science From the Fringe host Bryce Nickels and distinguished virologist Simon Wain-Hobson discuss two striking examples of reckless virology research—one well known and the other largely forgotten—and issue a call to change the culture of modern science. The first example revisits the controversial resurrection of the 1918 Spanish flu, a virus that killed tens of millions worldwide. Simon explains how NIH-funded researchers extracted genetic fragments from frozen cadavers, used PCR to reconstruct the viral genome, and then revived the virus in 2005, publishing the full sequence in Science . Despite claims that the work would aid vaccine development, he argues that no public-health benefit ever materialized, while the potential for misuse dramatically increased. The second example, less known but equally concerning, involves retroviruses resurrected from fragments within the human genome. In work published in 2006 and 2007 , researchers in France and New York chemically synthesized what they believed to be defunct human viruses—naming one “Phoenix.” Although performed with NIH and national-science-foundation support, there was no transparency about biosafety levels or prior ethical review. Simon argues that such experiments, however clever, violate the moral boundary between curiosity and recklessness. From these examples, Simon and Bryce turn to solutions—chief among them a Hippocratic Oath for scientists . Just as physicians swear to “do no harm,” they propose that life-science researchers and funding agencies adopt a similar pledge to avoid work that makes the world more dangerous. Simon envisions a three-part reform: NIH and major foundations embedding the principle into grants, universities inco…

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## Transcript

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